Episode Transcript
Frank Hereda (00:01.742)
Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode. It's your favorite business coach, Frank Harita. And today we have a special guest, Mr. Sonny Moyers. And we're going to have some interesting conversations today. We get to know him a little bit and get to know he's got a great book out. And we're going to talk about that. Why don't, before we get started about where you grew up in your early life, why don't you tell everybody a little bit about yourself, the title of the book, and then we can kind of talk about.
where we're gonna go today, because we've got a lot we can cover.
Sonny R Moyers (00:33.845)
Frank, I really enjoy, look forward to the interview and hope I can be a great help to your audience and provide them some good advice and some good suggestions for how to build their business. Entrepreneurship is very, I've been involved in doing businesses my whole life. And just to give you a little background, I started out at Abilene Christian University doing my, I was an athlete there and I had a wife and a baby.
which made me a little different at 19, at 19 years old. And so I was playing football and quite frankly, needed to make some money because being on scholarship, I didn't, I had all my school paid for, but I had a wife and baby to take care of. And so I was kind of desperate for a, a solution. And my book goes into some of the details behind that, but I, I found an ad for a,
Frank Hereda (01:05.934)
Yeah, I'll bet.
Sonny R Moyers (01:32.629)
apartment manager position and assistant manager. And I interviewed for it and I was at 19 years old. I'm shocked that they even considered hiring me, but they did. And I wondered why. And about two weeks after I was hired as the assistant manager of this small apartment complex, 28 unit apartment complex at Avalaine, about two weeks afterwards of being hired, I kept wondering, when's this guy going to train me on something? The manager.
I'm going to, I'm going to, what am I going to do here? You know, and one night the doorbell rang and I answered the door and he handed me a stack. The manager handed me a stack of books and a pouch filled with money and checks and cash and handed me key, a pouch with keys and said, I'm leaving. Nice to have known you. And walked out. He was loaded up and left and.
in the information was the information of the ownership of the apartment complex, a gentleman named WR Dick Kendrick and Dick Kendrick was a Avaline realtor who owned and operated shopping centers and apartment complex of two and, a real estate firm. And the next day I arranged to go see him and we sat down and started talking and he was.
I'm sure he was wondering how the heck did this 19 year old kid get to be my assistant manager. And now we standing here with a whole bunch of books and money and telling me that my manager walked out, you know, and I'm sure he was wondering what the heck's going on here. How did this guy get the job? But somehow Mr. Kendrick, and this goes into some of the things I write about in my book, intuitive thinking, you may remember the name Daniel Wegener who wrote about the unconscious mind.
And my, I have a master's degree in psychology. So when I started doing my book and well, many years now I've taught all over the world. I've taught in 20 different countries, but I, I, Daniel Wagner wrote about the unconscious mind and particularly in regard to intuitive thinking and what people might realize is that when you pick up on something, your unconscious brain is registering forming opinions.
Frank Hereda (03:33.998)
Okay.
Sonny R Moyers (03:58.229)
in the unconscious and you may not even know it, but you've already formed an opinion, which might be example would be you and I meeting today and talking. We probably formed an early opinion about each other and that happened unconsciously. Well, Mr. Kendrick for whatever reason, liked me. And at 19 years old, I didn't even know how to balance a checkbook. He hired me to be his apartment manager.
Frank Hereda (04:27.886)
Wow.
Sonny R Moyers (04:27.989)
And then later on asked me about a year later, asked me if I would be interested in getting a real estate license. And that's how I got into real estate. And I went ahead and well, I went ahead and finished because of Mr. Kendrick, who was a tremendous mentor and a tremendous human being helped me through some very tough times. And by the time I finished my, I got my undergraduate degree in management with a minor in communications and.
Frank Hereda (04:37.038)
That's pretty interesting.
Sonny R Moyers (04:55.061)
Later went back and got my master's degree in psychology, human behavioral theory, research methods, and communications. And did a master's thesis that had to dealt with communications theory, self -disclosure reciprocity, and some things like that. And so that's a little unusual profile for a real estate agent, but I was involved in real estate for then, and I went to work for a big corporation.
Frank Hereda (05:14.062)
Okay.
Frank Hereda (05:17.71)
It is. Yeah, right.
Sonny R Moyers (05:25.301)
worked in a big corporation, did a consulting business related to real estate, traveled all over the world and taught marketing and sales all over the world. And one of the areas that I taught a great deal was business planning methodologies, how to do a marketing plan, how to build a business model, how to build your business model and how to create a marketing plan and a business plan. And as an entrepreneur, I think one of the major deficiencies I see in people who start a business is,
They just don't have a plan. They have some money. They have an idea. They have a desire and a goal and they jump into the water. Unfortunately, sometimes they find that they can't swim. And so my book has a lot about that. My book takes someone who thinks that they want to become a real estate agent, but doesn't know a thing about it.
Frank Hereda (06:14.734)
Interesting.
Sonny R Moyers (06:21.973)
goes, they'll go and get their license and have this misconception that if they get the license and they affiliate with a big company, a good company, that buyers and sellers are just going to come flocking to their door and that they're going to be successful and drop a fancy car and take people to lunch. And it'll be easy. And it's sure. It's sure not that is it.
Frank Hereda (06:40.59)
Sure. Well, and no, it's not, but I find that, and it'd be interesting to get your take. You've been in a lot longer than me. I think I'm now 23 years in the business. You've been in a lot longer than me at that. So 50 plus. So that's impressive. So the, so the question is, do you think I feel like TV has really exacerbated that problem? Like people, they see the luxury on TV, the shows, how easy it is, the negotiation and it's
Sonny R Moyers (06:54.325)
50 plus.
Frank Hereda (07:10.286)
It's not like that, but I also find that anything you go and get a license for, so I had my financial licenses when I first got out of college, it's the same type of thing, right? You get your financial license, your real estate license, whatever, that's like the work then begins. You haven't even started the real work, right? Because you have to build a business and figure out how to get business.
Sonny R Moyers (07:31.285)
Exactly. Well, you know, there's a million five hundred and twenty thousand agents in the United States that are affiliated with NAR, the National Association of Realtors. And that affiliation to be able to call yourself a Realtor, you have to be affiliated with NAR, the association. But there's and that was these are statistics from a couple of years ago when I started writing the book. Took me two years to write the book. The.
In the United States, there's 3 million real estate agents. And of those, 1 million, 520 ,000 or so are affiliated with NARA. Well, that's a lot of people. Now, if you take the population of the United States, 330 million, I'm guessing now, because it changes every day, right? But 330 million, and divide that by 3 million, there's a whole lot of real estate people for every 100 people in the United States.
Frank Hereda (08:14.254)
roughly.
Yeah, right.
Sonny R Moyers (08:28.309)
Now, if you take my area where I live in, a wonderful neighborhood called Winsong Ranch in Prosper, Texas, there's 2 ,800 homes. Now, in this neighborhood, there are probably 75 agents who live here. And there are probably another 100 or 150 that want to do business here. So if you take 2 ,800 homes and divide it by even 100 agents,
If there's 2 ,800 homes, a whole bunch of them aren't ready to sell or vie. They just moved here. Maybe a few years ago, they moved here. And the people move every five to seven years. So where I'm headed with this is there's significant competition. This isn't just in real estate. This is in professional services companies in general, financial planning, insurance, whatever. So the book appeals to a lot of different venues, but
Frank Hereda (09:02.35)
That's right.
Frank Hereda (09:12.494)
Absolutely.
Sonny R Moyers (09:23.125)
for your listening audience, if they're anything to do with professional services companies and competing against other, what I might call Goliaths, okay? And I would be considered one of the Goliaths in real estate here because of my past experience and success. But when they're competing, they better have a better plan than I'm a nice guy and you should hire me. In fact, most people, you might be familiar with the term social conditioning. So, yeah.
Frank Hereda (09:51.214)
I think, why don't you explain it and I'll tell you if I'm right or wrong.
Sonny R Moyers (09:53.653)
All right. Well, social conditioning is where the society in general is conditioned to have certain beliefs, thoughts and ideas. And those beliefs, thoughts and ideas, for example, real estate is an easy job. You get a license. Here's about what you'll have to pay to have a realtor. The seller is going to pay the fee to have for me to have a buyer agent.
They're going to drive me around in a fancy car, but they probably don't know a whole lot, except they just know where to, they have keys to all the houses. And that makes the real estate world, that social conditioning has, but the society in general, buyers and sellers condition to a, an impression of what a realtor does. And that, what they, what that impression is, you might say that they think that all realtors are ubiquitous. Pretty much alike.
Frank Hereda (10:30.126)
That's right.
Sonny R Moyers (10:54.005)
because they all do much the same thing and they all know pretty much the same thing. And the promulgated forms from the real estate commissions in each state kind of support that because they're filling the blank forms. So when an agent does a contract, they fill in the blanks and the consumer might think, well, all they're doing is filling in blanks. They're getting paid all this money to fill in blanks. I mean, they don't have to be a lawyer. They don't have to be an accountant. They and.
Frank Hereda (11:13.934)
Mm -hmm.
Frank Hereda (11:20.398)
Yeah.
Sonny R Moyers (11:22.645)
That kind of makes the ubiquitous idea that all people are alike. And many people think that all financial planners are pretty much alike. In fact, yeah.
Frank Hereda (11:29.678)
Well, they're not there. That's even, that's even more varied, I feel like, than real estate agents. Cause you get into the registered agents and you know, non -registered and then there's different categories of that and fee based, you know, that kind of thing, or they can do both. They can do fee based and commission. So.
Sonny R Moyers (11:45.205)
Yeah. But one of the challenges is that the public, the general consumer may not know all that. And they're socially conditioned to think that these different professional services companies, CPAs, for example, are pretty much the same. And that's not true, but that's what they think. And so what this brings us to mind is a concept called differentiation.
Frank Hereda (11:53.358)
They don't.
Sonny R Moyers (12:12.245)
And what the fundamental question I might have asked many real estate agents here that I know, I've said, okay, so in fact, I was with a group yesterday morning, 15 real estate agents with anywhere from 50 years, 45 years to two years of being in business. And I asked them this question, how would you differentiate yourself? Tell me three ways that you're going to differentiate yourself from the people who compete with you in your market area.
How are you different? How are you better? And most of them don't, yeah.
Frank Hereda (12:45.87)
Most of them don't do it. And the other piece is...
It comes down to being able to state your unique value proposition, whatever we want to call it. Right. So the, let's say that's three or five, but what problems are you solving? Right. And it's the potato chip aisle example. A guy I work with always uses the potato chip aisle example. You walk down the road, potato chips. That's every agent and they all look the same. How are you going to pick which bag of chips you want? And, and that comes down to understanding what you do to solve problems and how do you do it differently? And I just think that agents aren't prepared for that conversation.
Sonny R Moyers (13:21.365)
for sure. And you and I are speaking the same language here because I have a story to tell you about that. You go to a hotel and you walk into a wonderful ballroom and there's 300 people there. Let's say 299 people there. And they're all real estate agents. Okay. And they all are dressed in gray and they all have a badge on their chest that proclaims their realtor status. Okay.
and they all have salesperson stamped across their foreheads. Okay. But one person walks in and they're in blue and they have, they don't have a badge on and they have a different look and a different expression on their faces and all across their forehead. It says, I care about you. Now that's differentiation.
And what that says is I want to be able to stand out in a crowd because see most real estate people are product salespeople. They think they're selling homes. And this is where you and I really connect. I don't sell homes. I solve problems. I help people make good decisions. And those good decisions are not only getting a place to live, but how being able to sell that place to live at some point.
Frank Hereda (14:32.462)
That's right.
Sonny R Moyers (14:43.829)
future. So what I try to do is be a consultant to the client and a collaborative consultative real estate agent rather than a product oriented salesperson. And I think that's a big difference. And I think even financial planners, I'm always amused when I go to a meeting, a chamber of commerce meeting and there's 25 or 30 people there and they all have salesperson stamped on their foreheads. Okay.
And someone walks up to me and says to me, I'm a financial planner, and I have a package. I have a plan that they turn it into a product. The products I market are and that's sometimes some of the language of some of these financial management people. Well, real estate agents do the same thing. They think they're selling homes.
What they're really doing is helping somebody solve a problem, finding a place to live, how to get the kids in good schools, how to create a lifestyle that they would enjoy. And so my entire approach, my entire real estate career has been how to solve problems, not how to sell a home. The selling the home just happens. And I think this is where you and I really agree from a philosophical perspective that if you just take care of the client and put the client first, I mean, what is fiduciary responsibility?
Frank Hereda (15:57.454)
That's right.
Sonny R Moyers (16:10.037)
Fiduciary responsibility is to put the client first in all matters. Their best interest, not yours. And so when you're a fiduciary to the client, it's not that you're trying to sell a home. You're trying to solve a problem. And as a result, the home sale happens. But too many real estate agents get invested in the product rather than the solution for the client. And they look like and they act like a product salesperson.
Frank Hereda (16:16.302)
That's right.
Sonny R Moyers (16:40.085)
And as a result, they fit in with the ubiquitous idea. Now, when they do that, when all things are equal, what would a client typically ask for? What is the difference in what you do? And if you're all the same, how much do I have to pay? And that drives people to negotiate commissions. And so one of the best ways to avoid being in that role of negotiating commission is to stand apart and different from.
the norm and to be able to demonstrate through demonstrating proficiency. And that term demonstrating proficiency is an important concept. Demonstrating profi - I'm sorry, you wanted to say something I think. Well, have you heard that before yet? Have you heard? Okay. Demonstrating proficiency is very different. Here's the best way I would describe it. One of the people in my meeting yesterday that I was speaking to,
Frank Hereda (17:22.922)
no, go ahead, I'll let you finish and then I'll ask.
I have.
Sonny R Moyers (17:37.589)
came into real estate and the first thing they did, they didn't really know what to do because they didn't have a marketing plan. So they went out and got a bunch of designations. Now going out and getting a bunch of designations that are a logo that you can put on your business card. They thought that was proof that they were an expert. But the way you demonstrate that you're an expert is through demonstrating proficiency, not by proclaiming on a business card because you have a logo.
for which you pay so much per year and you went to a two day class for, okay? Or maybe a one week class. Now I'm not against designations. I'm certainly not against them, but I think that many people use that and think that means something. And to the public, being a designation of relocation client, relocation buyer, a specialist, doesn't mean anything. And so when they demonstrate proficiency,
Frank Hereda (18:11.15)
That's right. Yeah.
Sonny R Moyers (18:35.317)
The logo, the card, the designation is shallow proof. Demonstrating proficiency is real proof. So what you want to do with a client is you want to capture them long enough, create a relationship with them to give you enough time to demonstrate proficiency and capture them in your net. Okay? And that's real different than saying,
Frank Hereda (18:45.774)
Absolutely.
Sonny R Moyers (19:04.341)
My card proves it all.
Frank Hereda (19:07.214)
It's funny you say, it's funny you're talking. So when you said demonstrate proficiency, have I heard of it before? I've heard of it. Not maybe in that, that those terms, but, I was talking to a group of real estate agents that I actually coach and, this morning and I was talking to them about, a process that I love, Brian Tracy, Jim Rohn, a lot of those guys I've listened to almost everything they have and over the years, but.
Sonny R Moyers (19:07.829)
Thank you.
Frank Hereda (19:37.326)
Brian Tracy came up with a seven step sales process for anything you want to do. And what I was telling my clients was step two and three, everybody seems to be skipping. And that was build rapport and trust. And then the third step was ask quality questions that identify needs accurately. And I feel like that's kind of in the realm of what you're talking about.
Sonny R Moyers (20:03.861)
Yeah, I think the,
One of the things that I've observed is that the new agent is so anxious to demonstrate that they know something, that what happens in what you might call the prospecting stage of a sales process is that the salesperson or the real estate agent ask a question of Frank and hoping to hit a hot button. Now,
Frank responding to the agent hits a hot button. And the agent immediately says, I've got the answer. And that moves them into a sales presentation process. And when they move to a sales presentation process, it terminates the prospecting stage because it sends a signal to the client.
that we talked, we got to meet each other a little bit. I asked you a couple of questions and now I'm presenting. And the client sees, says, wait a minute, we're moving to the presentation stage. And the agent moves into telling how much they know. So one of the most important things that a new person can do, who's either any of the professional services fields, is when they want to prospect and understand your needs and wants, and they ask questions, is to not do this.
Frank Hereda (21:12.302)
That's right.
Sonny R Moyers (21:35.445)
pull that hand down and listen and document and continue to ask questions and prospect rather than presenting. But so many salespeople are so anxious to present and show what they know that they fall into the trap of being hot buttoned, presenting and terminating the prospecting stage. Well, the clients will tell you a great deal.
If you give them the opportunity and you don't start presenting.
Frank Hereda (22:08.622)
Yes, they skip the buy -in. They don't ever get the buy -in. And, and, and I, there's a, another thing that I talked to my clients about, which isn't mine. It comes from a guy's name is Phil Jones, but he has this, this concept of the conversation triangle. And there's three parts to a triangle and there's curiosity, there's empathy, and there's courage. And you need all three to have the right type of communication. And you have the curiosity, which.
creates context and that helps you get to the curiosity helps you you ask questions and that gets you gives you the context and then you can have empathy and start building trust because you can relate and then you have the courage to close and so it's it's kind of a speedy process but
Sonny R Moyers (22:54.645)
You know, I agree with that. I really think that's a great philosophy. Are you familiar with Sydney Girard's work on self -disclosure and reciprocity? Okay, Sydney Girard was a psychologist, a psychotherapist.
Frank Hereda (23:05.87)
now.
Sonny R Moyers (23:12.949)
And he wrote about this concept called self -disclosure and reciprocity, which I write about a lot in my book. It's one of the major chapters in my book. And it's an interpersonal communications theory. And let me relate it to how it actually applies to his world. With a patient who is clutched up, pressured under crisis, whatever the case might be, the patient is reluctant to disclose information because they're afraid of what that
person they're disclosing to might do with that information. And he ties that directly to another concept called the theory of the mask. And the theory of the mask is that when people meet each other, most people have a mask on of some kind. Some people's mask is very thick. Some people's very thin. I could tell within 30 seconds that your mask is very thin and that you're very visible.
to the world, but a lot of people aren't. So Gerard's teaching was to the other man, we are a mystery. They don't know what we might do or we're thinking. They might know how, they don't know and they're afraid of how the information I disclose might be used against them. And so what Gerard wrote about was the willingness of a psychotherapist to reciprocate with disclosure when disclosed to, thereby removing the mask and allowing people to be seen.
and liked. And if you believe that people buy from people they know and like, then it's essential to remove the mask and allow them to see you. Well, most salespeople, many salespeople, I shouldn't say most, because that's a probably an overreach. But many salespeople want to ask questions and get information, but aren't disclosing. And that sends a signal to the prospect that everything you tell me will be used against you in a court of law.
Frank Hereda (25:07.694)
Yeah. Yeah, right.
Sonny R Moyers (25:07.765)
And I'm not going to tell you anything about me. Okay. Well, that doesn't work well. So one of the theories, philosophies I've coached and taught my most of my life, I've never done really one -on -one coaching. I've done consultative training and things like that, seminars, programs, but, and I think you, you said you're doing some coaching. And I'm sure that's a very valuable tool that you provide to your clients. But I think that Gerard's theory of self -disclosure reciprocity.
is an essential interpersonal communications theory. And all the research shows that that concept applies not only to the patient, but to other people in general. So if you picture going into a bar and sitting down next to someone and they just start disclosing information to you, next thing you know, you're saying things to them you probably wouldn't say to most people that knew you knew, because you might be afraid how they'd use it. So it's not a choice.
It's a psychological need to reciprocate with similar disclosure when disclosed to. And it's a very important interpersonal communications concept. So one of the key things for a great salesperson to do is to learn that when the client says things like, I feel, I need, I want.
Those are telling you that disclosures are getting ready to come. And if you don't reciprocate with similar disclosures, you're going to terminate the relationship of communication and cut off that in disclosing relationship and removing the layers of the onion is what builds trust in relationships. So you take the onion skin theory, the theory of the mask and self -disclosure reciprocity. You have three legs to a stool, okay?
And that concept, you take those three together, very powerful interpersonal communications theory. And that's why my book is about psychology. It's the architecture of the real estate practice, but the psychology and art of the real estate profession. So the book is really about psychology, interpersonal communications. It's not about contracts. It's not about becoming a millionaire overnight. It's about how to build relationships with people over time.
Frank Hereda (27:25.23)
It's really funny how the word relationships comes into play with all of these facets of business, right? Whatever it is, it's all about relationships. And that's all we're talking about is how to build relationships fast, how to make them strong, and that's really it.
Sonny R Moyers (27:34.869)
for sure.
Sonny R Moyers (27:44.757)
Well, and you know, I told you about my meeting with Mr. Dick Kendrick, WR Dick Kendrick, when I was 19 years old and he hired me as his manager. He was a highly disclosing person. He had no fear. And I was a very expressive, outgoing, disclosing person. So the ability for he and I to communicate quickly and very quickly form opinions about each other in the unconscious mind and the conscious mind as well.
allowed him to see something in me that said, I'm going to let this 19 euro kid run my 28 unit apartment complex, handle thousands of dollars of money each month. Certainly when I was in dire financial straits, that's not always a good recipe, is it? Have to give somebody the keys to the kingdom when they're in dire financial straits. And yet he did, he trusted me and we were able to, he was a mentor for years and quite.
Frank Hereda (28:31.566)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sonny R Moyers (28:42.453)
Frankly, I probably wouldn't have finished college had it not been for Mr. Kendrick.
Frank Hereda (28:48.59)
It's interesting also, I find that in business, but you know, I always tell my, coach coaching clients that, you know, finding a mentor is always a great option, right? And some of us stumble upon one, some of us seek them out. but it's funny how many times I'll hear about somebody who's been in a business very long time, very successful like yourself. And they came across someone that changed everything for them early in their career. And that.
that you fit that model like the most.
Sonny R Moyers (29:20.405)
Yeah. Well, and then, have you heard of the, do you read Malcolm Gladwell's books? I love his books. And, my book is patterned a lot like some of his books in the sense of the complexity of it. his books are not an easy read. tipping point. Yeah. Tipping point. Blink. David versus Goliath. I mean, these are all great books.
Frank Hereda (29:26.19)
I've read some, sure.
Frank Hereda (29:36.014)
Sometimes they aren't. Yeah, they're pretty, I love to dive deep into them though, the data, that's what I love about them.
Blink.
Sonny R Moyers (29:47.221)
And in tipping point, he just he brought talks about the law of the few. And you may remember that, but. All right. Yeah, one of the bug where I'm enjoying our conversation, because I think we have a same wavelengths on a lot of things, and I hope the audience is getting a lot from this. But I think the gladwell and his law of the few and he uses a term called connector.
Frank Hereda (29:54.67)
I didn't read that book, so I'm not familiar. So let's talk about it.
Frank Hereda (30:17.422)
Okay.
Sonny R Moyers (30:17.973)
And a connector is somebody who's, you might call them a social butterfly. There's somebody who knows everybody and everybody knows them and everybody likes them and they collect friends like some people collect coins or antiques or sports memorabilia. And they have lots of people that they know. Well, one of the most important strategies in marketing in real estate is to find a connector.
Frank Hereda (30:27.406)
Mm -hmm.
Frank Hereda (30:33.998)
Yep. Yeah.
Sonny R Moyers (30:47.989)
And you might market to 500 homes in a neighborhood. And the idea that you're going to market to 500 homes and that a whole bunch of them are going to call you and list their homes with you. And you're going to get all these many clients. Isn't this not true? Once you're really doing your marketing to 500 to find the few. Now, if those few are also connectors, then you've opened the fountain of income because.
Frank Hereda (31:16.462)
Very true.
Sonny R Moyers (31:17.301)
And in this case, where you, and this is why relationships in real estate and in financial planning and probably insurance are the key to success. Because if you form relationships with people and if they're connectors, it's even more important because they're the people who know everybody and they're going to open up because of their nature. They're going to open up their sphere of influence.
they're going to open up their family connections within their own families. And they're going to share those people with you. And you will end up getting a lot of people to work with, but not because you appeal to the masses, but because you found the few. So what we're doing is really looking for a few good people, aren't we? From that movie, A Few Good Men. And so when you market, people think that you're marketing to a thousand homes, maybe in a particular neighborhood, and that you're going to...
Frank Hereda (31:52.526)
That's right.
Frank Hereda (32:06.126)
That's right. That's a very good point.
Sonny R Moyers (32:16.725)
You're going to send out a thousand pieces of mail and you're going to get 25 phone calls and they're all going to be people who want to use your services. Well, that's not true. It doesn't happen. You might get one and that one person. Yeah. And so from a marketing perspective, the really what it is, is the law of the few. We did a study of our own business over a 10 year period where we looked back at our, at our, where our income came from. Now we used a very complicated and important CRM to do this.
Frank Hereda (32:27.342)
Right. Well, it's also length of time, but yeah.
Sonny R Moyers (32:46.517)
but we tracked source of leads, where they came from, who they referred, and what kind of impact that had on our total business income. And we went back and looked at over a period of 10 years, how many clients were the root cause of most of our income. Okay? In other words, the tree started with a person who referred people, who referred people, and we tied all that together by tracking in our CRM.
And we found that about 15 clients represented 80 % or more of our revenue by who they referred and who they referred. So it starts with the law of the few, get a few good clients who will refer you and open their sphere of influence. And that's the secret to success because one client could refer you or produce $200 ,000, $300 ,000 worth of real estate income.
Frank Hereda (33:35.598)
You never know.
Sonny R Moyers (33:36.533)
And it's happened many times in our group. Being in 50 years, we've had lots of experience. Many of our clients we've done multiple transactions with over 20 years.
Frank Hereda (33:45.454)
not that it matters. I'm just curious. What CRM was it?
Sonny R Moyers (33:49.461)
Top producer for real estate. It's a Canadian company. It's a really old, we started it 28 years ago. I mean, yeah, and it is a little complicated. It's a little bit challenging to learn, but I'll tell you something. The ability to assign classifications and client codes was essential in our marketing effort. So what we did, we used the CRM as our, by the way, we could not have done a sophisticated marketing program.
Frank Hereda (33:51.31)
Okay, I've used that.
Frank Hereda (33:56.206)
I've used it, yeah.
Sonny R Moyers (34:18.389)
without a good CRM. It's absolutely impossible to do. Now we also introduced some concepts that I brought into our real estate firm that most people aren't using or are familiar with. And that's account management programs, client management programs, and account planning. Now what that took, that took a philosophy from major corporations and said, all right, I want to, Frank's a really good client. He's a connector.
Frank Hereda (34:19.662)
No, it's mandatory, it's essential.
Sonny R Moyers (34:48.245)
Okay, and I want to open him up. I want to get to his sphere of influence. And so I'm going to code him P1 in my system. And somebody else might be coded P2 and somebody else P3 and somebody else P4, but Frank is going to be P1. And I'm going to spend a significant amount of my personal time as a real estate agent working with Frank because Frank is a connector. He's got everybody knows Frank.
Frank knows everybody. And so that's how you work and build referral networks and grow your business. So an account plan is a, it could be two pages or it could be 30 pages about Frank, his family, his connections, who he knows, how he knows them, how does he get, how does he connect with people and is he a raving fan? You read the book, Ken Blanchard, Raving Fans, okay. Okay, it's a good book. It's a simple, easy book, isn't it?
Frank Hereda (35:38.798)
Okay, good book.
Good book.
It is.
Sonny R Moyers (35:46.325)
But it's a great concept and raving fan. If Frank's a raving fan and also a connector. wow. And if he's on social media. Wow. Then I've got a real fountain of income. Okay. So the ball game is not to find a whole bunch of people who could not buy home from you. Or let you be their financial planner or get their insurance through you. The game plan is to find a bunch of a few people who know a whole lot of people.
and have an impact that when they say call Sonny or call Frank, it means something. Okay. That's the real ticket. And I found that that to be the case. And some of our some of our people we had a state farm insurance opened up its regional headquarters in Dallas a number of years ago. And one of our clients was a medium to lower level manager. I tell the story in the book, by the way, but
Frank Hereda (36:26.222)
Gotcha.
Sonny R Moyers (36:47.701)
I'm not going to use their real names, but Let's call her Gail for a minute Gail bought a moderately priced home for Dallas. It was about 350 ,000 you know but within days She referred people to us I Mean within days she became a raving fan almost immediately Now she worked with my wife in that particular transaction and Judy made her a raving fan immediately
And so this Gale started referring people to us and they would call us up and said, I'm moving to Dallas. Gale told me to call you. She said, call Sunny and Judy. That's how powerful that referral was. And those people, we ended up selling over 20 clients as a result of Gale. Now Gale gave us people who referred people who referred people.
At times we had two or three people referring the same person.
Frank Hereda (37:48.942)
Mm -hmm.
Sonny R Moyers (37:50.517)
And so that's how you build a real estate business that stands the test of time. And it becomes a practice over time rather than just making some sales. And that's why I'm not a big fan of product oriented salespeople because they didn't buy from us because we were selling homes. They bought from us because they could trust us. We were highly competent and we were highly professional. And that was the ticket to our success. You know, we're very successful. Thank goodness we've.
Frank Hereda (38:15.95)
What?
Sonny R Moyers (38:18.261)
In 2015, I was voted by the Dallas Business Builders Association, the number one realtor in Dallas, and only one person could win that award that year. It's not like D Magazine, which is a really nice award to win. I was D Magazine for 16 straight years, best of Dallas D Magazine. However, there were about 200 agents that got that award. Yeah, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And so,
Frank Hereda (38:31.182)
sure.
Frank Hereda (38:39.918)
Yeah, right. You're one of one with that award.
Sonny R Moyers (38:45.557)
You know, there's a difference between being very successful in real estate means you're successful over time and that you have clients who call you back and trust you enough to believe in you. In fact, one of the most important things we're going on right now is many of the changes in real estate is that a client who wants you to be successful, who wants you to get business and who wants you to make money because you do so much for them.
Frank Hereda (39:00.878)
Sonny R Moyers (39:11.861)
You're so valuable to them. I have another one for you. And if I'm going too fast or too hard, you stop me Frank, because I get really excited about what I'm doing. All right. Have you ever heard the term the relation, the client relationship must survive closing? Okay, now it's what that says is the way I say it is that the client thinks I'm going to buy a house. I need a realtor.
Frank Hereda (39:19.15)
You're good buddy, you're good.
Frank Hereda (39:28.11)
Yes.
Sonny R Moyers (39:42.133)
I want to go out and get me an agent. And they think that you're going to do a great job for them, which you do, and that you're going to go to closing and they're going to sign on their house and you're going to probably bring them a nice little gift, maybe take them to lunch. And that is when that's over. that's pretty much it. That's what the client thinks. Now. Yeah.
Frank Hereda (40:07.054)
Well, that's what, and just an interjection, that's what most agents do.
Sonny R Moyers (40:12.021)
You're absolutely right. And that's another one of those social conditioning things. They think that, okay, I need something, I get it, I'm done. Okay. Now what we want to do is that at the closing, we want to, as we move from sale to closing, we want to start building on why you should have me in your life after closing.
Frank Hereda (40:20.59)
That's right. It's not that investment long term outlook.
Sonny R Moyers (40:40.533)
why I can be valuable to you over many years, not just when you buy a home. And so we look for ways to be important, valuable to the client so that the relationship survives closing. Now, many agents do follow up mailers, hey, you've been in your home for three years, but one of the most biggest mistakes people make is they keep sending sales messages.
to that client after closing. I sold another home. I made top producer. Yeah. Just listed just so, because it's not original content. It has almost nothing to do with the client who bought the home because that client's there for five to seven years unless something unfortunate happens or something great happens. Okay. But they're there for a while. They're kind of kind of sleep for a while, you know? And so you got to find reasons to talk to them that aren't sales related.
Frank Hereda (41:16.238)
The worst postcard ever. Just sold, just listed.
Frank Hereda (41:25.198)
Nothing.
Frank Hereda (41:38.35)
That's right.
Sonny R Moyers (41:39.221)
And so that's what's called a perception sale. Now, a perception sale is a sale that doesn't necessarily make you any money, but changes the perception of the client so that they believe that you're important to have in their lives going forward. And that's how you cause a relationship to survive closing.
Frank Hereda (42:03.054)
That's it. So I agree with everything you're saying. And I wish and hope more agents take the advice. But let's go back to, if it's OK, I'd love to go back to the business planning. Talk to me a little bit about, when I think about a business plan, I work with multiple types, depending on the business. But you're talking about mission and vision, values.
Sonny R Moyers (42:17.461)
Sure.
Frank Hereda (42:32.014)
talking about numbers from the year before and numbers of where we want to get to this year. You're talking about seasonality maybe. You might be talking about the marketing and lead gen. You got your expenses on there and maybe a SWOT analysis. So of those, I mean, is that what we're talking about? Do you have, is this something different or is it those and certain pieces that are more important than others?
Sonny R Moyers (42:47.893)
Yeah. Well, if you read some more about me, you find out that I was in charge of a lot of different things in major corporations that were theory, marketing theory, management theory, and things like that. And from that, I developed what might be called a planning model for doing a business and marketing plan. And so let me just kind of give you a quick...
snapshot of it. Yeah, well, the book ends with a chapter on the business model. Why you need a business model. And what most people do, they go into real estate without a general idea of what their business model is. In fact, most people go into real estate who don't know how to write a business model. They haven't identified their profit centers.
Frank Hereda (43:17.774)
Yeah, they can get the book to find it all out, but maybe give us a rough draft.
Frank Hereda (43:28.206)
Okay.
Frank Hereda (43:43.534)
Not at all.
Sonny R Moyers (43:46.805)
their client benefits statements, they haven't identified the primary marketing strategies, they haven't explored fundamental concepts that will allow them to be successful, like professionalism is synonymous with value, okay, the magic minute and things of that nature. And so they have no idea how to write a business model. What the book does is takes them through a process of how to develop and write a business model. And then it provides them in chapter 37,
a sample business model that was mine that allowed us to be highly successful over a period of over 20 years. Okay. Now that, now that from there, we now fast forward to the next step. Let's assume you've gotten to that point. You have a clearly identified business model, who you're going to market to, how you're going to market to them, what your fundamental concepts are. And now it's time to write the business plan. Okay.
Frank Hereda (44:24.59)
Gotcha.
Sonny R Moyers (44:44.629)
Let's start out with a pyramid. And some of this I'm sure you will know and have already heard before. Not much in business is new. Although I do have some concepts that people usually haven't heard about because of the psychology background. But let's start out at the very top of the pyramid. Your mission statement. Now your first mission statement is a public mission statement. And it's no more than four or five sentences long.
And the best way to describe it is for the public good. What are you going to do for your publics? What are you going to do for your people, the people that work with you, your clients? Okay. And that mission statement is a short, concise document of why you exist. What are you going to do that's important? Okay. Now the underlying mission statement is the private mission statement. And that one includes money.
It includes your financial goals and your non -financial goals. And you might have 15 non -financial goals and three or four financial goals. Okay. Now when the new realtor starts out, they have the slightest idea without a business model, without a plan, they really don't know how to even, they got to have a business model to start and most of them don't. Okay. Now underneath the,
primary, the mission statements and the public and the private mission statements. Then you have primary marketing strategies and those primary, if you think of the pyramid, you've got one, two public and private, then you have primary business strategies. And this is a little difficult to talk about without a picture or a chart behind me, but the primary business strategies, one of them might be differentiation.
Frank Hereda (46:35.054)
Sure.
Sonny R Moyers (46:42.357)
How do I stand out and be different from the 1 ,520 ,000 real estate agents that are out there and these 99 other agents who want to sell in Winsong Ranch? Okay. And how do I come across as being different? Well, so your differentiation is how do we create systems and the primary business strategy segment of your business plan? Okay. No money is spent.
It is strategy, not tact.
Frank Hereda (47:15.566)
Okay. Okay.
Sonny R Moyers (47:18.965)
And for that reason, it is how do I communicate with my public? How do I communicate with my clients? How do I show them that I'm different? How do I, for example, differentiation, I might have a tactical plan which lays across underneath primary business strategies. And those tactical plans is where the rubber meets the road. That's where you spend money.
Frank Hereda (47:44.622)
Okay, so it's supporting the mission of the one above it. Flows up.
Sonny R Moyers (47:46.293)
If your tactical plans have to support a primary business strategy or you don't fund them. So when someone comes into real estate and they need to make money, because they've only got enough cash to survive three months, four months, six months before they start going, I got to have a job. If they spend money on getting something that doesn't produce income, cashflow, then the result is they consume the resources.
Frank Hereda (48:09.358)
Yeah.
Sonny R Moyers (48:14.165)
Everyone has scarcity of resources. It just depends on the volume of scarcity. Okay, so go ahead. I'm sorry.
Frank Hereda (48:21.102)
I was gonna say, would you compare that to leading with revenue? Kind of.
Sonny R Moyers (48:25.621)
I would compare it that way, but I would say leading with profit.
Frank Hereda (48:30.318)
Okay.
Sonny R Moyers (48:31.253)
Because see, revenue is, okay, there are two models in the world, in the real estate world. There's two models.
Frank Hereda (48:34.414)
Well.
What I mean is money coming in. So yeah, you're talking after expenses and I'm talking before. Yeah. Yeah.
Sonny R Moyers (48:40.181)
Yeah. Well, you know, people who do this, there are, there are two agents, there are two types of agents in the world. There are two models for building a real estate practice that we might consider. One is a volume model and one is a profit model. Mine was a profit model. Now the difference was the discounted. Who worked for nothing was a volume model. Okay. Now they didn't care if they made money.
Frank Hereda (48:56.846)
It's right.
Frank Hereda (49:04.974)
That's right.
Sonny R Moyers (49:09.973)
They just wanted volume. They wanted to be on top of the real estate board in their office and said, number one agent, top producer, whether they made a profit or not. And so when you talk about primary business strategies and tactical plans that support those business strategies, so if differentiation is one of your strategy, you might use a concept or tactical plan called the mini home book. And the mini home book I write about in my book and provide an example of it and a detailed process for it.
Frank Hereda (49:19.214)
Yeah.
Sonny R Moyers (49:38.965)
but it basically says, how do I, with my marketing materials in the home, differentiate myself to the listing prospect and to people who visit the home and to nosy neighbors who know about the home and come visit the home? How do I put something in the house that differentiates me? The other primary business strategy is to demonstrate premier marketing effort and skill. And so the mini home book does both.
It differentiates, but it also demonstrates the quality and professionalism of your marketing materials that you provide to a client in their home. Okay. So the, when you look at the business model, so you have mission, public mission, private, and because you don't want to tell the public that you're trying to make $200 ,000 net profit next year. Okay. That's not really a good plan. Yeah. And then you, your primary business strategies could be from a technology differentiation.
Frank Hereda (50:17.998)
Gotcha.
Frank Hereda (50:28.302)
Yeah, yeah, probably not a good idea.
Sonny R Moyers (50:37.077)
It could be a lot of different things that are going to differentiate you. And I provide some of those concepts in my book. Okay. But in the tactical plans is where you spend money. Now, if you fund tactical plans, like in the early days, going out and getting five designations where you spend three weeks attending classes to get a logo on your card, that doesn't produce income or profit. And as a result, revenue or profit.
Frank Hereda (51:04.75)
But we've got to get the fancy stuff before we can get started.
Sonny R Moyers (51:06.549)
Well, and so what happens to a lot of realtors, they come in with limited resources to start with. They spend their time funding tactical plans that don't drive them toward their primary business strategies and as a result, reach their mission of what they're trying to accomplish, those financial goals. And as a result, they burn their cash on tactical plans that will not produce revenue or profit. And then they run out of money and then what do they do?
Frank Hereda (51:33.934)
100%.
Sonny R Moyers (51:36.852)
Well, and then the other thing that happens is desperation sits in and, please, if I keep going too long, you tell me, okay. All right. So desperation sits in very quickly with a new agent. They get in there and they go, okay, I don't have a business model. They don't know this, but they don't have a business model. They don't have a marketing plan. They have no idea what tactical plans they should have. And so they look around them and then they start copying. Okay. They say, well,
Frank Hereda (51:36.974)
100%.
Frank Hereda (51:43.982)
No, you're fine.
Sonny R Moyers (52:06.581)
this guy sends out cards that say, I'm the best. Everybody sends out cards saying I'm the best. Everybody sends out cards saying, I sold a house, I listed a house, I did this, I did that, I'm number one, I'm blah, blah, blah. But those messages are all make them look ubiquitous the same. And as a result, they've reduced themselves to being equal to not better than.
And so the new agent very quickly gets desperate because they don't know what to do. And so they start funding tactical plans that will not likely result in revenue and profit. And therefore they run out of cash before they have a chance to be successful. And that's why you have a lot of agents that quit within the first two years.
Frank Hereda (52:41.134)
That's right.
Frank Hereda (52:56.302)
Well, I think the failure rate is like 87 % in five years. It's funny to me that you're right. It is a copycat game. They do get desperate, but it's that shiny object. I, you know, one of the number one things I see agents balance is they just, they can't help themselves get this new thing. This is the answer to all my problems. If I just do this one thing or buy this one knickknack or whatever. And the next thing you know, it doesn't do anything. And it's, it's boring. This, the path to success is boring.
Sonny R Moyers (53:01.781)
Ahem.
Frank Hereda (53:26.222)
It's the same disciplined actions every day. That's what gets you but you have to know where you're going. Like you said, it has to fit your plan but then you have to stick with it.
Sonny R Moyers (53:35.253)
Well, and I'm a big believer that if an agent is going to spend money in the early days, they should spend it on coaching. Okay. Because spending it on designations gets you a shiny little logo you can put on your card, but may not mean anything to the consumer. And certainly it doesn't make you any money. Okay. And by the way, probably didn't result in you being an expert. It only gave you a little logo that said you were an expert and it's shallow proof. Now, let me tell you a quick story.
Frank Hereda (53:50.51)
That's right.
Sonny R Moyers (54:05.141)
I'll try to make it quick. Okay. We went, Judy and I went to a conference and there were about 300 agents there. And there were some speakers there who were techie guys. Okay. I'm relating this to your comment about shiny and new. Okay. And they were up on stage and they were telling us all that, the new technologies were everything. In fact, Frank, they even told us that we were all dinosaurs.
Frank Hereda (54:19.726)
Gotcha.
Sonny R Moyers (54:35.957)
and that we were all going to be out of business within five years. Because the new consumer could get so much information without us that they wouldn't need us. And they were very, very alarm oriented in their presentation. Now, they did have some good technologies they were talking about. But their message was, if you don't adopt all these shiny new objects and do these things,
you're going to become a dinosaur. Okay. In fact, behind me, you can't see it, but I got a picture of a dinosaur. Okay. The dinosaur is a dinosaur bones. Okay. Because I remember that story. That's this event so much. Okay. Well, that thing was a three or four hour meeting. And at the end of the meeting, my wife and I walked out, who was my partner in real estate in our group. My company is called the Renaissance group. Okay.
Frank Hereda (55:16.878)
That's funny.
Sonny R Moyers (55:30.933)
But we walked out and I said, well, we learned a lot today, didn't we? She looked at me like, well, you know, what do you mean? I said, well, we learned a whole lot of things to do, but we learned a lot more things not to do. And she said, could you explain? I said, well, if we did everything that they're talking about, all the technologies that would admittedly be faster would absolutely be more efficient.
They would take us further away from our client, not closer.
it would be less communication with the client, not more. It would be shorter, more efficient communications, not more valuable. So essentially what I said was, there are technologies that they talked about that we should use, but we need to be closer to our clients, more personal, not less personal. We don't want to use texting for everything. We don't want to use email for everything. I want to have face -to -face contact.
with my client on a regular frequent basis. And so we went back and we restructured what we were doing. And we said, put an emphasis on personal contact, put an emphasis on touching people, being in front of people. And it ended up that resulted in Judy and I, the brokers, I had three assistants, one broker with three assistants. Okay.
And those three assistants job in life was to get free me up to talk to clients. I probably didn't do a CMA for 15 years. Okay. People did those for me. I went over them, reviewed them, of course, but they did the back office work. I was the person talking to clients. 80 % or more of my time was talking to clients. Now I would say to your listeners, if you're in business and you're a young entrepreneur,
Sonny R Moyers (57:32.597)
You better be talking to clients and prospects a whole lot and not spending a whole lot of time doing classes and research and a lot of other things because you've got to turn the money on. You've got to get the revenue and the profits coming in. Otherwise, you're going to run out of money before you have a success. And that's unfortunate.
Frank Hereda (57:51.022)
Yeah, no, I agree. 100%. It's all about, H -butt, right? Highest and best use of time. So if you're, if you're not doing it, then.
Sonny R Moyers (57:58.037)
Well, yeah, one of my major concepts in the book is scarcity of resource and understanding scarcity of resource. You only have, and by the way, who's the most valuable resource? What is the most valuable resource a young person has who's an agent or an insurance agent or a financial planner? The most valuable resources they have is them. And when they tie that resource up on things that are not money -making,
they put themselves into a nosedive into failure. Okay. Now, so the goal is when you are, when you're a new real estate agent or entrepreneur, you better know how to use these fingers and they better not be broken and you better have a voice and you better use the fingers to dial the phone and reach out to people and talk to people. And you better be out in front of people because
you're going to sitting in your office, you're going to die. Okay. Now the fact is that the virtual office, let's talk about that for a minute. A lot of models in real estate today are moving agents toward virtual offices, which means what? They're at home. They're not networking with other people. They're not in an office environment where they can get together with two or three other agents and brainstorm.
They can't explore ideas and opportunities. And if they're in an office at home and they don't have a coach or someone to teach them, and they're not reading material that is innovative, creative, and really rewarding to them, knowledge teaching to them, then they're going to sit there and like the mushroom. They're going to be like a mushroom in a room and they don't know quite what to do. So they panic and they start spending money on things like going to a conference and spending $3 ,000.
to go to a conference where they think they're going to learn something and they learn basic copycat type marketing techniques. Okay. And so you've got to have, you've got to put your time and effort into creating relationships and building the business. Not now the business model that I described, if you go back and think about mission, public mission, private primary business strategies, tactical plans that support the primary business strategies.
Sonny R Moyers (01:00:19.125)
that drive you toward achievement of your mission. And underneath that is what? You can't really do a budget without that, can you? How can you do a budget if you don't know what tactical plans are? Now I will tell you something that people need to realize. A real estate agent who's building a real estate practice, their budget is 90 % marketing. So if you don't have a marketing plan, you're not earmarking where you're gonna spend 90 % of your money.
Now, if you don't have any money to spend on marketing, you're simply just hoping and praying that somebody will knock on the door or call you and say, I want to sell it. In fact, you're hoping that a relative will call you and say, I want to buy a home or one of your best friends from college will call you. And then when they're gone and they've bought, guess what happens? You know, you, you, the rookie of the year is one of the very big deals in real estate, right? You go into real estate office and you've had someone's a rookie of the year.
Frank Hereda (01:00:49.422)
grade.
Sonny R Moyers (01:01:15.829)
and you really start delving into it and they sold three of their family members homes, they sold their home and bought another home, and then two friends from college bought homes, and then year two comes around, year three comes around, and they're going, my gosh, I have no business. Okay, you better have a business marketing plan. Now, 90 % of all the money you spend in real estate is gonna be in marketing. If you're not doing that, you're probably gonna die.
Frank Hereda (01:01:37.422)
True.
Yeah, yeah. It's the investment in yourself and the investment back into the business from the marketing standpoint for sure.
Sonny R Moyers (01:01:45.909)
Yeah. Now, when I said that I had three people who all their only job in life was to free me up to talk to people, I obviously knew how to call people and talk to people. I knew to identify opportunities. I knew how to identify target markets. I knew how to identify and look for people who were connectors.
Frank Hereda (01:02:08.302)
That's what you got to do. You got to play to your strengths. I love it. I think it's great. I, I love the conversation. It's been a good conversation. I like it, man. There's, there's another 50 different ways we could go here. we're going to have to do this again, cause we have, there's a lot, there's a lot going on in our industry right now. So,
Sonny R Moyers (01:02:17.557)
It's been great fun.
Sonny R Moyers (01:02:21.653)
out for sure. Yup.
For sure, I have an entire discussion about the future of the industry and what I would say would be very optimistic and positive versus negative because I see nothing but good happening in the future. If you're a consultative, collaborative real estate agent and not a product salesperson, don't worry. Yeah, the.
Frank Hereda (01:02:39.182)
I agree. I agree.
Frank Hereda (01:02:45.614)
I agree. I agree. Where would you like people to go to find you? Where can they find you? Where can they find the book?
Sonny R Moyers (01:02:53.077)
Yeah. Well, I'm on YouTube. I have a channel. A R E P stands for architecture of the real estate practice. 2023. A R E P two two three is my, is my YouTube channel. they can go to the book website at real estate book .org. Or G. Okay. they can go to my website for real estate, which is sunny more yours .com.
I have a blog on blogger. I have a lot of marketing out there.
And if they just go to YouTube and just type in under search sunny or more years podcast, they'll find 16 to 18 hours of conversations like you and I have just had. And that's a great place to start, but I would recommend that they consider the book because the book takes them through a process. It's not a, it's a textbook, Frank. It's not as our discussion today is very complex with a lot of nuggets in it. Right. Because.
It's a textbook, not a, I'm a get rich quick real estate book. Okay. It's a textbook and it will take, I have, I have a group of people, eight agents that work in a group and they bought eight copies of my book and each week they're meeting and discussing one chapter and they're up to chapter 16. Now there's 40 chapters in the book. Okay. This will take them, 40 weeks or longer.
Frank Hereda (01:04:00.942)
Sure.
Sonny R Moyers (01:04:24.821)
to finish the book. It's a complex book. It is not a quick read. And while I would love everybody to buy it, that would be wonderful, but I only want really want people to buy it who use it. And many people will buy it and will not be able to complete it because it is complex.
Frank Hereda (01:04:30.83)
Well.
Frank Hereda (01:04:44.174)
Well, I think that right now is a great time to buy the book because of the way the market is and who doesn't want all the tips and tricks or experience from someone who's been in the business over 50 years. Of course.
Sonny R Moyers (01:04:49.973)
for sure.
Sonny R Moyers (01:04:57.109)
Well, can I share one more story with you? A number of years ago, there was a recession and we were in this recession and a lot of agents were cutting back on marketing. And those were what I call abandoned dollars. They were leaving markets and not continuing to contact them because of the recession.
And what they basically did was abandoned all of their marketing and all the expenditures they had made up to that point and we're going to lose market share in those areas that they left. Okay. And so we doubled and then tripled our marketing expenditures during the recession. Why? To get market share. We said, well, when these other people cut back and leave, let's be the face that they see.
Let's be the one who's out there still marketing. And that was a significant, we did a major, this was back in the days when newspapers still had power, you know, in advertising. And we doubled and then tripled our advertising budget from newspaper advertising. Okay. we, we went way the opposite direction. One fundamental rule in real estate. If everybody is sending cards, don't send cards. Okay. If everybody's doing, shopping carts at the local grocery market,
Frank Hereda (01:05:56.206)
Yeah.
Frank Hereda (01:06:12.814)
Yeah, do the opposite.
Sonny R Moyers (01:06:17.237)
Don't do a shopping cart, okay? You know, spend your time talking to people. So go where the others aren't, not where they are, okay? And so look for ways to be innovative and creative. And I think the book provides them a great way of doing that because it's a consultative oriented approach rather than product centered approach. And it's, I mean, I've had many, many years of success. Thank goodness I'm 73 now. I don't really want to work with her. Well, thank you. I don't really.
Frank Hereda (01:06:18.158)
Yeah, right.
Frank Hereda (01:06:24.494)
That's right.
Frank Hereda (01:06:43.47)
You look amazing. Hope I look that good at 73.
Sonny R Moyers (01:06:46.933)
Yeah, you will. You will for sure. But one of the people who, there are three powerful people on the back of my book that wrote quotes. And one of them said to me, Sonny, I don't get it. I said, what do you mean the book? He said, no, I get the book. I don't get you. I said, why? He said, Sonny, you're opening the kimono. You're showing the whole world all you do. You're sharing all your secrets.
And I said, well, I'm 73. I don't intend to work until I'm 90. You know, I mean, I, that's why I wrote the book. I was wanting to do something different and challenging. Boy, it was challenging writing this book. It was challenging, two years. But I think he said to me, why are you doing this? And I said, well, at this point in my life, I would like to see a few people come into real estate and not fail. I would like to see people.
not have to struggle for two years. And I tell a story in the book about a gentleman that I helped that was, had spent two years or three years operating a business that was a real estate related business. It was a business center, like a Regis Center or WeWork, something like that. And he had lost $400 ,000.
Frank Hereda (01:08:01.678)
huh. Yeah.
Sonny R Moyers (01:08:08.885)
And he was a very, he was a wealthy guy, but $400 ,000 is still a lot of money to lose. And he didn't have a plan. He didn't have a model. He didn't have, he just jumped into it. And I think people, before they jump into it, need to have something to build or plan on. And that's what the book was written for. It's step by step, step by step. Yeah.
Frank Hereda (01:08:12.974)
That's a lot of money.
Frank Hereda (01:08:28.27)
I love it. It's given, given back. I love it. I'm a impressive story. Thank you for sharing everything. And I recommend everybody get the book. It's, it, it looks great. I'm going to get it. And, I appreciate you, coming on and walking us through it and talking to us.
Sonny R Moyers (01:08:44.337)
Well, Frank, if I might, it's a hardback, but it's got QR codes in it that when you scan the QR codes, it takes you to my YouTube channel and you see me talking about the chapter you're reading about at the time. Okay. And it's got also over 5 ,000 words of scripts, actual words you use in real estate. Okay. So it's a very different book. It's a multimedia type book rather than just a standard, let me tell you my story book.
Frank Hereda (01:08:58.254)
Gotcha.
Frank Hereda (01:09:07.182)
Love it.
Frank Hereda (01:09:14.414)
Love it. Love it.
Sonny R Moyers (01:09:15.061)
lot of teaching. There are some stories about my clients that you'll find very enjoyable. And yeah, like how to how to reach out and sell to somebody you don't know. Yeah.
Frank Hereda (01:09:24.75)
All important, that's one of the number one things we have to do. So I love it. Well, I appreciate it. And everybody, we'll put the links in the show notes as well and let everybody know where to go. And I appreciate everybody being here. Thanks for showing up to another episode and we'll catch you guys next time. Thanks everybody.
Sonny R Moyers (01:09:34.517)
Right?
FRANK'S INFO:
Frank Hereda - Business Coach (www.frankhereda.com)
SONNY'S INFO:
Sonny Moyers (Youtube: AREP2023 & Book: www.realestatebook.org)
