Episode Transcript
Frank Hereda (00:01.846)
Welcome everybody to another episode of Focused, Free and Fit. We have a special guest today, Mr. Alan Lazarus. And I think I said his last name right. I promised I would. So welcome, Alan. Nice to have you on the episode.
Alan Lazaros (00:19.496)
So thank you so much for having me. It's an honor. Nine years ago, I started listening to podcasts and I would listen to these articulate speakers who sounded like they had it all together and it really helped me change the trajectory of my life. It helped me improve myself a lot, seriously. And now I've become one of those people and I definitely don't have it all figured out, but I definitely starting to sound like I do.
Frank Hereda (00:42.668)
That's a good start. That's good. That's good. Well, I think the more you, no matter what journey it is, at least I've found the longer I, the more I learn, the more new things I take on, the more I realize I don't know. And so, getting better every day for sure, but lots to learn, lots to
Alan Lazaros (01:02.194)
Yeah, every time you get better, you also realize how far you have to go.
Frank Hereda (01:06.092)
Yeah. Yeah. So it's a double edged sword, right? so let's get into it. I always start every episode, with finding out a little bit more about you. And I'd love for you to share with us, you know, a little bit about, don't we start with what you do, but then let's talk about early years. I like to ask, you know, what was it like family life or did you grow up? How big of an impact did that have on you? know you had some interesting circumstances.
I'd love to get into
Alan Lazaros (01:37.722)
Yeah, absolutely. So I'll give you the end at the beginning. So now I'm a business coach, business owner. We have a company called Next Level University and that's sort of the parent company and the brand. And then my business partner, Kevin, has something called Podcast Growth University and I'm starting Business Growth University. So the idea is Next Level University is self -improvement, fulfillment and success, fundamental mindset stuff.
And then if you want to grow your podcast, you got podcast growth university. And then if you want to grow your business, business growth university. So he's the podcast coach. I'm the business coach and we both are obsessed with self -improvement. So, and fitness too. we get along from that. So that's sort of where I'm at now. Definitely didn't start there. So early, early, early journey, childhood, I'll give you the shortest version I can possibly do. So I often joke, say, I'm hoping to hit puberty at 36.
Frank Hereda (02:33.23)
I was gonna say, you look like you're 17, so let's find out how you... Yeah.
Alan Lazaros (02:35.565)
Yeah, yeah exactly. Let's see. Let's see how I got from zero to 17 That's a computer engineer thing zero to 17. There are no zero age Alan so When I was two years old, I'll give you the short version but the important thing that before I tell the story I always try to say this is I Understand this in hindsight At the time I didn't know what the heck was going on and I it's sort of like when you watch a movie as a kid And then you watch it again as an adult
And you go, oh, got it. The movie didn't change. Your perspective changed. Your awareness changed. And so now I kind of get it, but again, only at the 35 -year -old version. Okay, so when I was two years old, my father passed away in a car accident when he was 28 years old. I had a older sister who was six at the time. I had my mom, she was 31. She was a stay -at -home mother. And my birth father, so my real last name is actually McCorkle.
Frank Hereda (03:09.848)
Absolutely.
Alan Lazaros (03:33.306)
And lot of the Lazaruses, the Lazaruses, a lot of people see the word Lazarus when they're Greek and they say, Lazarus? Because I don't have a hair on me, you know? Who's this Ken doll Greek over here? But anyways, so I'm actually Irish, Polish, German. But so my real last name is McCorkle. That was my birth father's last name. He was from a big Irish Catholic family. So it was Jim, Joe, John, Jane, Joan, Jeanette. So he had five siblings. My mom and pop
His mother and father and so when he passed away my stepfather came into the picture Steve Steve Lazarus and we took I took his name I think around age seven something like that and When we were trying to be the Lazaruses quote -unquote. We didn't really associate with the McCorkles anymore Fast forward I'm 14 years old hardest year of my life didn't realize that at the time But I've since done a lot of therapy in my 30s and I've again rewatched the movie of my own
over over over again and really trying to understand it at a deeper level, understand myself. And so 14 was the hardest year of my life in hindsight.
Stepfather leaves, takes his entire extended family with him. I've since, I'm 35 now, I've since not spoken to a single one of them. I haven't seen any of them, except I did talk to my stepdad a little bit on Facebook Messenger.
That same year, my sister moves out with her older boyfriend. She's three years older than me. That same year, my mom gets in a fight with her sister, my aunt Sandy. And we get ostracized from that side of the family. And we still don't really associate with the McCorkels because we were trying to be sort of the Lazaruses. So I knew intuitively as a kid, like my life was not.
Alan Lazaros (05:22.75)
Super bright and again, there was bright spots for sure. There was some really good things too. We lived on a lake and that kind of stuff. I actually playfully refer to three to 14 as boats and BS. And the reason I do that is because my stepfather, know, snowmobiles and motorcycles and trucks and my mom drove a BMW and this, he worked for a company called AGFA in the mid nineties hospital computers and the nineties .com. But I mean, everyone was just winning in the nineties economically,
And so we were sort of upper middle class. had a yacht. I mean, we did well, but everyone kind of did back then, at least everyone we associate with. But my mom and stepdad liked to party. And so you're a kid and you grow up in an environment that you didn't choose. You don't understand it at all. My mom and stepdad definitely didn't get along. And that's a polite way to put it on a public medium. And they loved to party. And so I playfully referred to it as boats and BS because it was hunting, fishing.
ski trips, yacht. And then when he left, he got the apartment building and the yacht, we got the house and the dog.
Alan Lazaros (06:34.477)
and 90 % of the income was gone. So I go from Xbox, Dreamcast, early Christmas presents, boats and ski trips to I get free lunch at school now because our income is so low. And I go from 14 when he left. 14 when he left, yeah. And my dream when I was 10, I told you I'd give the short version, but this is definitely not that.
Frank Hereda (06:46.39)
And how old are you at this point?
Okay, this is still 14, okay.
Frank Hereda (06:59.074)
Well, it's tough to give a short version of your life.
Alan Lazaros (07:02.174)
It is. It's ridiculously challenging. Thank you for that. So 10 years old, we're driving past WPI, Worcester Polytechnic Institute. It's kind of like a mini MIT. My uncle Merle was the track and field coach there on my mom's side. And Norcross Field is still named after my uncle Merle. He has since passed away. And so my mom said, you're really smart. Engineers make a lot of money. You should go to that school. You'll make a lot of money. And I wanted to. So that was my dream college. And so when my stepdad left,
I went from, crap, even if I get in, I don't know if I can go. And so I bootstrapped. And so when my stepdad left, 14, losing three families type of thing, fortunately the McCorkles, I think it's important that I say this, they took us back with open arms. I mean, they were very sweet. But I looked just like my dad. So they were seeing kind of ghost of Christmas past type of thing. Right? So that was hard on them too. And, cause I look very, very similar to my dad. mean, it's a spitting image.
Frank Hereda (08:02.156)
Well, and they hadn't seen you since you were two or three.
Alan Lazaros (08:02.29)
My birth father. Exactly, yeah. Since I was just a little kid, yeah. And so at that time, I now realize this again, in hindsight, there's four trauma responses when you study the psychology. It's fight, flight, freeze, and fawn.
Fawn is the one I didn't understand and go figure that was kind of my go -to, at least socially. I call myself a social coward. I've since overcome a lot of that. But Fawn, socially, fit in, fit in, fit in, don't poke the bear type of thing, don't abandon mint challenges. Again, only understanding this now. I didn't realize it before. But fight was my trauma response behind the scenes. Aim higher, work harder, get smarter, And that was my trauma response.
Okay, the past is painful, the present is painful. I don't have any trust fund to look forward to. I have to build something from scratch because I don't have the family scaffolding to help. And I didn't consciously choose any of this, by the way. I only realized in hindsight because I've been wondering why I'm so different. I'm very different statistically speaking, and I don't understand why. Now I understand why, because statistically speaking, I've been through some stuff. But so anyways, my
trauma response was work harder, aim higher, get smarter. And I had two dreams. One of them was gonna be, and I realize how arrogant this will sound now, but as a kid, this is genuinely what my thought process was. It was lawyer, politician, president, or it was gonna be engineer, MBA, CEO, like my hero Steve Jobs at the time, at the time. My friend Kiki and I used to argue who's smarter, Bill Gates or Steve Jobs
So Steve Jobs was my hero, he's no longer my hero. So anyways, I did what I had to do. I got straight A's through all of high school. I got 189 in honors English. Luckily it was weighted, because I went for what's called the President's Award. You needed to get a 95 or above GPA for every report card, all four report cards, all four years, 16 report cards straight, you have to get above a 95. So you cannot screw up at all. And so I did, I got the President's Award, it's actually behind me.
Alan Lazaros (10:15.87)
signed by George W. Bush, that one. And that's how few people get it is he actually signed it. But I got into school and fortunately, I got scholarships in financial aid, like a lot. And my mom helped me to from her retirement and I got to go to school. WPI is 50 grand a year and this is back
50 grand a year. And I stayed for an extra year for my masters. So that's $250 ,000, right? So I would never have been able to get to where I am. And feel it's important that I say this, if it wasn't for this country investing in my mind. Because I got financial aid and scholarships. And I get really emotional about this because I would have been screwed, to be honest.
And so now in many ways, that's what next level university is, try to find the people who are willing to put in the work. So yeah, I earned it, but I also lived in a country that could afford it and, and invests in their people. Right. So I'm really grateful for that. so fast forward, I get my computer engineering degree, which was a brutal, I went from the smart physics award, math award guy to just another face in the MIT crowd. It's not MIT, but it's a mini MIT. And,
So I got through computer engineering, which is the hardest thing ever of all time. Holy crap. And then I went into masters in business and that was easy. I mean, I just, I think it's two things. One, it's easier than engineering and number two, I'm also naturally inclined to business, which I now understand. And then I was off to the races. I mean, I worked for iRobot. I worked for Sensata Technologies, which used to be Texas Instruments. I worked for Cognac. I worked for a company called Oz Development, Tyco Safety Products, Simplex Grinnell. I had an interview at SpaceX.
And then I came home, I was in LA for a time. just job hopped in the tech space, computer engineering, 21st century technology boom, like perfect place, perfect time. And I just went from 65 to 85, from 85 to 105, from 105 to 125. And I made it all the way to about 180 back in 2014. That was the most I had ever made. And I'm working for a company called Cognex. I sell industrial automation equipment into manufacturing facilities all across
Alan Lazaros (12:31.614)
the world they do, my territory was Vermont, Connecticut and Western Massachusetts. And it's machine vision equipment. So picture the eyes of a robot, cameras, bottles going down a line, camera takes the picture and makes sure it says the correct stuff. It's quality assurance type of stuff. Yeah. And so I did super, super well there. Then I get in my car accident. So I'm 26 years old.
Frank Hereda (12:50.434)
Gotcha.
Alan Lazaros (13:00.062)
At this point, I thought success was going to save my family. And again, this is only in hindsight. I figured, okay, let's get really wealthy because that'll solve my problems. Not true and true. Yes and no. So I had, I paid off 84 grand worth of college debt in a single year back in 2014. I had $150 ,000 in an investment account for Vanguard with, I bought all the tech companies that I knew would win. And again, new is in quotes, right? Cause no one really knows.
Frank Hereda (13:27.992)
Sure.
Alan Lazaros (13:31.533)
And I'm 26. I'm up in New Hampshire with my little cousin. And we're not drinking or partying or anything. This is the only person that actually came back from my mother's side. To this day, the only person I've ever seen from my mother's side of the family, his son, my second cousin, Dan. We were in a car together at 26. I was 26. He was 17. Going to TGI Fridays. Up in New Hampshire.
This is the bad winter in 2015 where the snow banks were covering the signs. I'm supposed to yield. I don't. end up on the wrong side of the road. Fortunately, two things saved my life. Number one, I bought a 2004 Volkswagen Passat for $5 ,000 cash because I was, I just wanted to build wealth. I didn't need much because I went from a lot to very little when my stepdad left. So it was just, listen, let's just invest it all and just get wealthy. And that was my deal. So I bought it in cash, five grand.
And it was a 2004 Volkswagen Passat. Thank you Volkswagen. That car was a German engineered steel trap. I used to call it the tank. And that car definitely saved my life. Number two, so I'm on the wrong side of the road. look up and I see what I thought was a Mack
right in front of me. My fault. I was supposed to yield and I didn't. It ended up being a lift kitted pickup truck. But in that moment when I thought it was a Mack truck, my brain went, no possibility. Like this is it. I thought for sure it's over. Scariest moment of my life. It's not a Mack truck, it's a lift kitted pickup truck and the Volkswagen is the safest thing ever. Both airbags deploy.
car is completely, I mean the whole hood of the car is completely smashed in but the frame stayed.
Alan Lazaros (15:20.99)
Now for my little cousin, he's already tweeting about it. Airbag deploys, he hurts his knee, I hurt my face, but we're good. Physically we're good. For me, my dad died in a car accident when he was 28. I'm 26 at this time going, this is the second chance my dad never got.
And I've seen pictures of his car and the pictures of my car don't look very different. And so this was my quarter life existential crisis. Phoenix burned down. Everything you thought you were is gone overnight. And I was filled with regret. was filled with was this, what was the point? Was I, am I proud of myself? Would my dad be proud of me? Was this really what I wanted or was I just achieving? And so now in hindsight, this is very clear to me
I've kind of put it in sort of four buckets, which we can get into, but the best way I can describe it in the shortest possible way is prior to 26, I was super improvement oriented and achievement oriented, but only externally.
I was an achiever and I worked hard and I was disciplined -ish and I tried to make good choices and be a good person, but I was not self -improvement
Frank Hereda (16:37.326)
So you're saying you weren't working on yourself. You were just trying to achieve, achieve, Gotcha.
Alan Lazaros (16:37.627)
I was in a
Alan Lazaros (16:41.458)
Yes, I was results and goal -oriented, but I wasn't focused on the character. I wasn't focused on the self -improvement and I was missing that piece. And so now, mean, since then it's been nine years. And after that, I woke up to self -improvement and I'm talking, I went obsessive. I took that same obsessive nature I've always had and I dialed it all the way back in here. Now here's the thing, I went all the way past broke.
I started my own company, I quit corporate, I liquidated all my assets over time and I just, bought every book I could get my hands on, courses, I just, I went all in. Fitness, supplements, all that stuff. I got really fit and I was super fulfilled but now I was unsuccessful. And so prior to 26, I was super successful but deeply unfulfilled without knowing
After 26, I was super fulfilled, but not successful. And I went all the way past broke. And so now I help people, business mostly, but I've been coaching now for seven years. And now I help people get to the last bucket, which is listen, you're successful and you're fulfilled and you want your future to be an amplified version of what it already
but you don't want to maybe work 12 hours a day, seven days a week anymore. That's kind of where we all want to get, I think. I think everyone wants to get there. And I think we have to go through those phases in order to get there. so fortunately I woke up earlier than most, cause I coach a lot of, my youngest is 16, my oldest is 63, anywhere from, I want to start a YouTube channel to I've been in business for two decades and I'm a multimillionaire already, but I don't want to work 12 hour days anymore.
and everything in between all different countries, all different clients and all that. But at the end of the day, that's really what it is, is how do we get everyone to successful and fulfilled? Because fulfilled people don't hurt people. Fulfilled people don't want to take advantage of people. And I think that that's really what I think will change the world.
Frank Hereda (18:46.146)
Well, it's having purpose, right? I mean, if someone doesn't have. What's the word I'm looking for if they don't have a not purpose, but, you know, it's growth that keeps us going. Right. So I think a lot of times someone's missing that piece self -worth. That's the word I'm looking for. People need self -worth,
Alan Lazaros (19:05.202)
Nice. Yes. And self
Those are the two right there, in my opinion. That's the foundation of all human beings.
Frank Hereda (19:13.132)
I agree. I agree. And you don't, and sometimes you don't re I don't know how you would realize it. I mean, I think you can realize it, but I think you really hit it when you realize you lose something, right? You lose it or you're that, that kind of a thing, whether you retire and then you're like, what happened or you lose a job at the end of your life and you're like, where, what's my purpose now? That's a lot of retirees go through that, or just people that lose jobs, life change, whatever. that's really interesting.
You said something though, at 14 was the most difficult point in your life. Why was that? Was it because of all the transition? Was it because of everybody abandon, the abandonment at that time from the family? Is that why? Or just everything at once?
Alan Lazaros (19:59.161)
You know, it's I guess funny is the wrong term I Didn't know how bad it was. I think I knew intuitively how bad it was, but I I was just trying to keep it together and and so only in hindsight that I did I realize it's almost like you watch a movie and You're 35 now and you go that's my new favorite
It's like that but the opposite. That's now rewatching the movie. That's right. That was actually the worst. Because the car accident was really hard too. But nothing was worse than that year at 14. I had a teacher who was there for me. I actually emailed her recently. Her name is Christine. Mrs. Pryor. And she was there for me. And she brought me to WPI. They used to do math meets and stuff. And she was there for me. I told her, I said, you don't understand how much. I mean, I was crying when I was writing this email.
I, you changed my whole life so much because I had nothing. I felt like I had nothing at that time.
Frank Hereda (21:00.94)
I think it's really interesting. You said, it's an interesting thought, but you said the four, the fight, the flight, the freeze or the fawn. And I think about the stage you were at, and I think this might be, you would know, I wouldn't know this answer, but if someone gets therapy at that stage of their life and they understand the four typical ways they could go, well, now they might get a chance to choose. But if you don't know,
You go to whatever your, maybe your genetic predisposition is, or, or you just pick one because it's just natural. You don't even know you're doing it, but you're going to go one way or the other. Yours happened to be fight, which I could make the case. It might've saved you if you didn't pick fight and it was flight freeze or FON forever. Where would you end up? And so I
Would you say that's fair that that's what happens to most people at that stage? They don't have someone to interject or they just pick the wrong one because of their predisposition or what do you think about
Alan Lazaros (22:04.668)
Yep. That's a great philosophical question. I've been asking myself that my entire adult life. Because I went through, I had two really big advantages in life and I need to make that clear. Number one, I was born, I already mentioned it, in a country that invests in young minds that are promising. Number two, I also, and I'm scared to say this to be completely honest, but I'm trying not to be a coward anymore. I'm also really, really, really intelligent.
and I have this big brain and I was the guy who could party all night and get straight A's on the calc exams. mean, it's just everything seems to come pretty easy to me on the success side. Socially, not at all, to be honest. Socially, I don't feel like I've ever been super relatable or likable, but I'm definitely one of those like, why are you good at everything type of thing? And I never understood. I just thought everyone else sucked at stuff. Like I didn't understand. So to answer your question, to bring this back and get it off me.
Frank Hereda (22:44.718)
Sure. Yeah.
Frank Hereda (22:59.276)
Yeah. Yeah.
Alan Lazaros (23:02.534)
I had a lot of self belief. Now I've been contemplating what's the difference because my sister and I went through a really hard time, right? She lost her father at six and there's something called an ACE score. And there's a lot of research on this and it's adverse childhood experiences. And so the idea, the research shows that statistically speaking, I'm a computer engineer, so I think in numbers, so forgive me for that. But statistically speaking, people with a high ACE score tend to have early mortality through drugs, alcohol, blah, blah, blah.
Now, my A score is ridiculously high, it turns out. I didn't know any of that, because you don't really know. I mean, I knew I didn't have a dad, and that was weird, and I knew, but it wasn't till therapy and all that that I started going, whoa, this was like really bad. You know, this was statistically. Yeah, and.
Frank Hereda (23:50.978)
Sure, getting a chance to look back on it now.
Alan Lazaros (23:55.23)
And it comes with some advantages. mean, come on, you think some 5K is gonna take me down? We're gonna be fine, right? So people see me, they're like, how do you work six days a week, 12 hour days? I don't know how to explain it. I just feel like it doesn't come as, it's easier for me than other people. That's what I would say. Because when you go through stuff like that in your childhood, like your adversity can become your advantage, but it turns out only if you have self -belief. And self -belief, I've figured out the formula.
I'm a computer engineer guy, I'm a big math guy, there's a formula for it. The formula, I'll give it to you now. I do this with my clients. It's simple. It's not easy, but it's simple. It's state, prove, self -assign. I don't know why, but ever since... State, prove, self -assign, three steps. I'll go through each of them. So state is you state in advance what you're gonna do.
Frank Hereda (24:38.284)
Wait, say that again. State proves what?
Self -assign.
Alan Lazaros (24:52.414)
is you prove to yourself that you can do it and then once you do it, you self -assign it. I decided to get the President's Award and then I proved to myself I could do it and then I self -assigned it once I did it, unconsciously. So everyone out there watching or listening to this, if you don't resonate with me or I trigger you, it's because you know something deep down and deep down you know I don't struggle with self -doubt that much. Now, I'm scared.
So much to say that but you know that i'm different And what what you don't know what's different? What's different is that you struggle with self -doubt a lot more than I do I didn't understand this for the longest time because I just everyone else acted like they So they would have goals and dreams, right? But then they would just like go to the beach Hey, i'm gonna do this 10 -week challenge and then they would like not do it and it never clicked for me It's like why why that person said they wanted to do xyz
Frank Hereda (25:51.916)
Yeah, well, it was natural for you and it's just not for others. They have to work at having the discipline.
Alan Lazaros (25:52.904)
And
Right, achievement is natural for me. What's not natural for me is fitting in. And I'll get to that. I'm definitely very much a coward when it comes to social stuff. Half the things I've said on this podcast, I'm like really red right now. Because a lot of the things I say are not relatable to most people. And I now learned that through my business partner, because he's a lot more relatable than me. He struggles with self -doubt. He doesn't believe in himself as much. And he's not an
But socially, mean, everyone loves the guy. Right? I'm not as easily likable. achievement comes pretty easy for me. And it turns out it's because of self -belief. So back to my sister and I, like, why me? Why did my life turn out so differently? And I figured it out, because I was trying to figure this out. Why are all my friends from home, they had better circumstances than I did. Why did I achieve so much? How come I've achieved a lot of my dreams?
And I haven't achieved all of them, not even close, right? I'm still at the beginning of my journey. I'm only 35. But I'll tell you what, from where I came from, I look back and going, what happened? I thought you guys all wanted to X, Y, Z, right? And I figured out it's self -belief. They aren't building self -belief. My business partner, Kevin, he said, dude, I thought I got lucky in baseball. He was an all -star baseball player. He never self -assigned
He didn't decide to be an all -star baseball player, then put in the work to do it, then self -assign it. Guess what? You don't get to build belief then. Belief only comes when you decide in advance to do things. If you stumble upon a job, your unconscious isn't going to go, wow, you're the best. You did it. You decided to do it and you did it. What else can you do? Some people have a ton of self -belief and they don't know it though because everyone around them mirrors
Alan Lazaros (27:52.038)
and makes it seem like they do too. Until you go behind the scenes and realize most of what they're mirroring is just smoke and mirrors. And it took me so many years to figure this
Frank Hereda (28:02.714)
I feel like that happens naturally. meaning as you go, when you start to achieve certain levels of success in a certain field, I've seen this, I'm a lot like you in the self belief realm, but you, as the herd gets thinned, that's a lot of what it is. And I think that ties, have you ever read thinking grow rich? Okay. Well, you know, they, he talks about auto suggestion, but you have to believe you have to believe
when you say it to yourself. And I think that is a lot of this. You did it by just not knowing, likewise, but then sometimes we come across the, yes, yeah.
Alan Lazaros (28:38.482)
Yep. And reverse engineering too. Like my brain reverse engineers stuff, so I think that was another advantage too. Because what is self -belief? It's just certainty. Like, what's, I always do this with my clients, what's the certainty you can get Subway within three hours and eat it? And they're like, yeah, no question. I said, what about five minutes? They said, I can't.
Frank Hereda (28:48.802)
Yeah, that's right.
Alan Lazaros (28:59.792)
But let's unpack that. You're certain you have a credit card. You're certain you can afford Subway. You're certain there's a Subway down the street. You're certain they know how to make sandwiches. You're certain you know how to eat. You're certain you can do it in that time frame. But when I say do it in five minutes, can't do it. Impossible. I said, I know this sounds insane to a lot of people, but what if building a million dollar business is that same thing for me? I, you know, you.
You just reverse engineered it all in your head. I know how to build a million dollar business. I know how to do it. I'm not trying to be an arrogant prick here. I'm trying to be vulnerable and say there is a possibility to be that certain. It's not like I'm, okay, I can't win a marathon. I can't win a strongman competition. Seriously, no way. I'm weak. I'm an ectomorph. But I can build a million dollar business because I know how to do it and I've reverse engineered it in advance. Because Kev always says, like, how did you know we'd get here? And I said, brother,
Frank Hereda (29:31.597)
Mm -hmm.
Frank Hereda (29:43.724)
Yeah.
Alan Lazaros (29:54.652)
I reverse engineered it. Like, I'm not shocked. If anything, it's taken a lot longer than I'd hoped, to be honest. Right, so I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I feel like that
Frank Hereda (30:03.052)
Interesting. No, you did. Yeah, you're good. You're it's that's true. And it's good. It's I think people need to hear that. That's usually what you see is mostly just limiting beliefs, not someone who has the self belief. And I find that's a lot of times what you run into. So so. OK.
What would you say to anybody else? There's going to be people that are listening to this that they didn't go the way you went. So they didn't have the fight response. They didn't have success. They had trauma in some form or another. If you had to go back, is there anything you would tell someone that is in that situation that doesn't have the fight response
someone that's going through that now, what would you tell them to be able to have success or to break through those barriers that they're gonna run into along the way that you've been through?
Alan Lazaros (31:02.138)
The first one would be the self -belief formula. Back in college, there was a website called StumbleUpon and it was basically webcam roulette where you would just turn on your webcam and do silly stuff and then run across people on the internet doing silly stuff. And I thought it was the dumbest thing ever. My whole dorm was doing it. And I thought, what a waste of time that is. But now I know how much of a weirdo I am. I think most people do that in life. They stumble upon stuff.
But that's why you don't believe in yourself because you've just stumbled upon, you haven't designed anything in advance and then built it. And so everyone can sit there and go, where do you believe in yourself the most? And you intuitively know if you really ask the question. And then I can say, you decided to do stuff in that arena. Maybe it's tennis or basketball or I don't know, rowing, whatever it is. And then you'll go, yeah, I didn't stumble upon that.
Decided to get good at it and then I got good at it and then I proved to myself that I was capable That's what self -belief is and so that's the first one. The other one is self -worth and You already mentioned that so self -belief is I can build the castle because I have the resources or the resourcefulness and I know how to do it and Give me enough time and I can do it and I can't build a million dollar business in a year No chance in a decade. I can't You know,
Frank Hereda (32:23.534)
Yeah, the whole most people overestimate in a year what they can do, but they underestimate what they can do in 10.
Alan Lazaros (32:29.082)
Exactly. Right. And so for someone who's actually reverse engineering, that's like saying I can make a baby in one month instead of nine. It's impossible. Now you can build a billion million dollar business in a year, but like not without investors, not without potentially hoodwinking people. So a lot of people get confused by this and that's just the engineer mind. But the self -worth piece is the one that I struggled with. So I don't want this podcast to come off
Alan was always so awesome. I struggled so much with self -worth, so much, like to a drastic extent. Self -belief is I can build the castle. Self -worth is I'm going to honor the castle. I deserve to live here and I'm going to set boundaries and I'm not going to let my friends spill beer on the carpets. I'm going to be treated a certain way and be respected. I'm going to respect myself. And there's a formula for that too, that we teach at Next Level University and it's five things.
So the first one is keep set and keep the small promises you make to yourself. If you had a friend who broke as many promises to you as you've broken to yourself, how much would you value that friendship? You wouldn't. You wouldn't trust that person. How can you, when you keep, and this is by the way, why people don't state and prove. They've let themselves, if you don't state, you don't have to fail.
Frank Hereda (33:36.566)
Absolutely.
Alan Lazaros (33:51.068)
Right? I told Kev we'll build a multi -million dollar podcast and we've been failing for seven years, but we finally hit
Frank Hereda (33:59.148)
the overnight seven year success.
Alan Lazaros (33:59.538)
He's like, dude, yeah, yeah, I, I, call it failing forward and Kev's like, dude, I don't know how we did this. It's like, brother, we decided to do it and we just stuck with it until. And one of the reasons why I stick with it until is cause I don't want to lose the belief. I got to prove it. I got to prove it. Right. And so people say, well, prove yourself. You shouldn't have to prove yourself. I'm telling you to yourself. got to, you got to prove it. You don't have to prove it to your mom or your dad or your stepdad.
Frank Hereda (34:25.698)
Yeah, I think that's really.
Alan Lazaros (34:29.128)
But you gotta prove it to yourself. Go ahead, what do say?
Frank Hereda (34:30.7)
No, just going to say that's that builds the integrity, right? I mean, I think you need to be a person of your word. And if you're not to yourself, then how can you do that with others? So I'm right on with
Alan Lazaros (34:41.802)
The self -trust and the self -belief are very similar, right? And you're not gonna set goals if you don't trust yourself So how many years resolutions did you just not do and how much did that affect your self -belief? Okay, so that's number one for self -worth number two is Boundaries I Sucked at this for the longest
Frank Hereda (35:03.948)
It gets easier for some than it is others.
Alan Lazaros (35:06.294)
set and honor clear boundaries. So I'll give you an example. I was on a call with a business client earlier, his name's Matt, and he is a new client, and he's pumped. He's like, this is the best thing I've ever taught. Awesome, awesome, He's like, can we record this? And in the moment, I didn't have the courage. He's a new client, I'm excited. I'm like, yeah, we'll record it. And then afterwards, I'm like, Alan, you know you don't wanna do that. And I messaged him after. said, you gotta have the self -respect. I said,
Matt, there's certain things that I don't record. I do seven episodes a week at Next Level University. I've got another podcast coming out. Like those are front facing. These calls are taken out of context, could be misconstrued. These are private sessions. These are private sessions where I'm really unlocking you and I'm saying some things that taken out of context would be misconstrued. Right? It's important that these are private and I don't want to put them on the internet. So I had to set a boundary.
Because I'm not going to do that for one of my 23 clients. It's now actually 25. I'm not going to just do that for you. It's either standard or it's not. So I had to have the courage to tell him. Now, I had the part of me that was like, well, if I lose a client, I'll be abandoned. And all that stuff comes up. So that's why I was bad at boundaries, because I thought I'd be left and abandoned from 14. got a lot of people left me at once. So I still have that unlovable trauma. And that's where my
Challenges so I think I want to bring this to the table because I think this is really important for everyone out there watching or listening I don't struggle with competence courage Competence courage is apply to the job, know, write the resume do the cover letter go to the interview show up to the podcast Give the speech that I don't struggle with a ton where I struggle with his social courage So there's two main buckets of individuals from all the clients I've
and team members and all that. You either, and this will resonate with, you'll resonate with one of these or both of these, but it's a percentage. Okay, which side are you on more? All right. You are, if you resonate with this, you're in this bucket of competence, courage. So you feel like things come fairly easy to you. You've always felt pretty smart. You feel like you figure things out really easily.
Alan Lazaros (37:29.094)
You feel like you can get good at stuff pretty easily. You feel successful and you feel like getting successful is totally in your wheelhouse and you feel like you can achieve within reason pretty much what you want given enough time. Okay. If that resonated with you, you have competence courage, but you probably don't fit in unless you mask and chameleon yourself. You probably feel like too much for other people. You feel too intense to, to goal oriented to like, you're not exactly a lot of fun at the dinner table.
Okay. You feel unrelatable most of the time. You probably struggle with self doubt much less than other people, but you hide it and pretend you do. You like pretend that you, yeah, no, I totally had, that was so hard. Right. You, like placate and you feel unlovable. You feel like no one really likes you for some reason. You feel like people lash out for what seems like no reason. You don't, feel like you barely fit in anywhere and you wonder to yourself why other people lash out at you and why you get bullied when you don't understand why.
Okay, if that resonates, you are similar to me. Okay? If none of that resonated, this will resonate. If you're honest with yourself, you don't feel good enough, you don't feel smart enough, you don't feel capable enough. Most things don't come easy to you, and you struggle to achieve your goals and dreams. And achievement and success is not only scary, but you feel like it's not even for you. You don't understand how some people just win at everything, and you don't feel like you can win.
If that resonated, this is also true. You fit in easily. You're super relatable. People love you. People go out of their way to help you for almost no reason. No one almost ever tears you down, which by the way, I'm so jealous, right? And everyone wants to see you win because you're an underdog. And so you're relatable and likable and lovable and you feel totally awesome in your relationships, but you struggle so hard on the success side. Now again, human beings are nuanced. We're
on the spectrum of all of that. But I'm very small percentage, relatable and likable and that. And I struggle with social courage. That's why I struggled with self -worth because I never felt super relatable or lovable or likable. And for some reason people just bully me and lash out at me. It turns out those two types trigger each other. This is why achievers only like to hang out with achievers.
Alan Lazaros (40:01.112)
And people who aren't achievers are so insecure around achievers. So I noticed the moment we got on this podcast that you have high self -belief, even though you don't know it. You also have high humility in my opinion. Otherwise you would dislike me strongly. But you, so the last quote on this is, my business partner said this, beautiful. He said, you are either afraid that all of you is not enough or all of you is too
I'm afraid that all of me is too much. Too intense, too driven, too disciplined, too hardworking, too intelligent, too, too, too, too. I'm not afraid to not be enough. I'm afraid that if I show you all of me, I'm gonna trigger the hell out of you. I've exercised every day for almost two and a half years and I haven't missed. That's not fun for people to hear. If you struggle with exercise, you're gonna say, a dick.
So my problem is different. My problem is how do I try to stay heart -driven and humble? Someone with self -belief, the last thing they need is more self
Frank Hereda (41:03.992)
Mm -hmm.
Frank Hereda (41:09.068)
have you ever read you know patrick bed david is have you read his new book choosing your enemies wisely
Alan Lazaros (41:17.36)
No, but I've heard of the concept.
Frank Hereda (41:19.51)
So he has a, he has a, it's, it's business planning, right? So, that's our world, but he talks about business planning, using emotion and logic and everything has both. Right. And so I think that's where I, that's where my mind goes. When you, when you talk about this a little bit, it's like emotion and logic. You are more logic and you got to have more of the emotion. That's tough for you. I get that. so how do you, let's take it, let's go a little bit. So this is great. I want to ask though.
because you've been successful with your business, but you're not great socially. So how were you able to build your business, understanding business, but not being great with people? Because building a business is a lot about working with people and getting clients. And so I'm curious how you married the two knowing that that's not your strong suit.
Alan Lazaros (42:12.488)
So that is exactly it. We have to be ambidextrous. You have two things you need to really succeed in business. Two things you really, really, really need. Number one is competence. You have to be really capable and disciplined and conscientious and organized and structured and systems and metrics. you have to be rational and intelligent.
All of that is my natural state. The people part is not, and I've had to work really hard on that. The emotional intelligence did not come nearly as easy. Kev, that's his side. So Kev builds relationships like you wouldn't believe. Everybody loves Kevin. Everybody loves Kevin. You would love Kevin if you had him on. He's just a good dude. And he's super funny.
and he's fun and he's articulate, but he's unorganized, right? He didn't build the business. So we're all righty or lefty and you gotta be ambidextrous and you gotta surround yourself with people that compliment your weaknesses. And so for me, emotional intelligence was a weakness and he helped me tremendously. Half the reason I know all this is because of him. I didn't even know self -belief was a thing.
Frank Hereda (43:27.619)
Love
Frank Hereda (43:32.908)
Yeah.
Alan Lazaros (43:36.594)
People who have high self -belief, don't know that they have it, because they've never not had it. It's this weird thing. Yeah, it's like we wonder why other people don't believe in themselves more.
Frank Hereda (43:39.64)
Sure. it's a yeah.
Yeah. That's interesting. Okay. So that, so basically, and I love that because that's so true. So you were basically find where I'm weak. So you don't have to get better at it, focus on strengths and you bring someone in that's strong where you're weak. Essentially.
Alan Lazaros (44:01.19)
Yeah, and I think intuitively you'll you're already doing that. I think most intimate relationships are are actually built on that premise because every strength comes with a huge weakness, right? So self belief is a strength of mine, but arrogance is a weakness.
Kevin, humility is a strength, but self -belief is a weakness.
It's easy for him to be modest, but he doesn't believe in himself that much. So is it real? Is it real humility? So as he's grown in self -belief a ton over the last seven years, since we started working together, he's had to, he's never been torn down before. Now he's getting lashed out at and I'm sitting there going, interesting brother, you're not the underdog anymore, huh? It's a little different. It's a little different now. And so at the end of the day,
I wanna make sure we finish the self -worth piece because the boundaries thing and the promises, there's three more that I think people really struggle with that I've definitely struggled with. One of them is courage. That was my biggest kryptonite. If you are super competent, most likely social courage is your issue.
Now, if you are super likable and relatable and relationships come easy to you, most likely competence and self -discipline are your issue.
Alan Lazaros (45:18.43)
Okay. And that's Kevin and I in a nutshell, by the way. Right there. Okay. Courage. You're either afraid to do the thing and take the course and go to the school and get the education and get on the sales call, or you're afraid to tell hard truths to your team because they might lash out at you.
or you're afraid to be truthful with how hard you actually do work behind the scenes and make sure that other people are taking responsibility for their own stuff. That's me, the second one, right? We have three chief officers, me, Kevin and Christina. I call us the three cowards. No one wants to be bad cop, you know? It's had to be me, man. It sucks. It's so bad. We have a 22 person team now and it's taken a long time to get here, I'll tell you what, because none of us want to be bad cops.
Frank Hereda (45:59.51)
Yeah, yeah,
Alan Lazaros (46:11.032)
We just want to support everybody and lift everybody. you're awesome. You're totally awesome. You're the best. Right. It's funny. But anyways, so I've come up on it. But courage is number three. So you've got keep the small promises you make to yourself. Number two is set and honor clear boundaries. Number three is courage, either competence, courage or social courage. Choose which one you need because you're either afraid to be unlovable or you're afraid you're not good enough. It's always one of those two. All right. And then number
This is the invest in yourself
Why would Warren Buffett invest in a stock he didn't believe would grow?
Why you don't invest in something you don't value, right? If you value your home, you invest in it. You renovate the kitchen, you change the, you redo the deck, you shampoo the carpets, whatever. I'm not a home guy. I live in a condo, it's wonderful, but we don't do a lot of that. The point is when you invest in yourself, you increase your self -worth because you feel worthy
Frank Hereda (47:11.246)
That's my neighborhood.
Alan Lazaros (47:20.766)
the investment, right? Coaching, therapy, courses, books, podcasts. I guess podcasts are free. So it needs to be money. Invest money in self. Now don't go nuts. Don't do the 10 ,000 credit card open. Don't do any of that. Seriously. Like I've, there's some snakes in this industry that are, that are just absolutely preying upon people. One of my clients recently just told me about something. I can't even say the name because I don't want to, I don't associate with anyone in the industry anymore. I used to, I don't anymore.
Frank Hereda (47:39.85)
of course.
Alan Lazaros (47:51.87)
point is, is you gotta start investing in yourself just a little bit. Invest in yourself, invest in yourself, invest in yourself. That's number four. And then the last one is apples to apples comparison. If you're 50, don't compare your athleticism to a 22 year
It's not fair. And by the way, if you're 22, don't compare your wealth to a 50 year old.
Frank Hereda (48:12.408)
Yes. Your question on that. You said it's interesting. Well, two things. You know who? Do you know who Jim Roman Jim Rohn is? Me too. I love him. He used to say something like that. He used to say in invest, invest in your job to make a living, but invest in yourself to make a fortune. Yes. Yeah, exactly. I probably messed it up a little bit. It's not as eloquent, but something like that. But you just said something here.
Alan Lazaros (48:20.247)
love Jim Rohn, yeah, Yeah, big fan.
Alan Lazaros (48:33.96)
Make a fortune. Yeah.
Frank Hereda (48:43.104)
Apples to apples comparison. And one of the things that I always am big on in telling clients is to not even compare, I'm interested to get your take on this, not even compare themselves to anybody else because no one's just like them. Just compare themselves to yesterday. Thoughts on
Alan Lazaros (49:05.008)
I appreciate that you went there. This has been awesome, by the way. Thank you so much for creating a safe space for me to try to be myself here. I really appreciate it. My thoughts on that, I think that yes.
Frank Hereda (49:13.442)
Great, brother.
Alan Lazaros (49:19.614)
duality, there's a book called The Self -Made Billionaire Effect that was written in 2012 and that was back when there was only 1200 or so self -made billionaires. I think the total on the planet is 3300 now. But not self -made, total, total billionaires, right? But in that book, the point of it is that the number one, they studied billionaires that are self -made and they wanted to figure out the common mentalities. The most common mentality in a self -made billionaire is that they can hold two seemingly,
opposing ideas in their consciousness simultaneously. One of the reasons, I used to think I was a strong communicator and now I realize that I'm a strong communicator to a very particular type of person. Everyone resonates with Kev more than me, my business partner. And the reason why I think is he transcodes better. Duality. You're right to only compare to yourself yesterday and I disagree. The reason I disagree is you gotta know where you fall on the bell curve.
So I was with a client earlier today. There's three things in life that I think all of us need to be super accurate on. I have a Tesla that I love that's self -driving. It's kind of supervisor mode, so I know it's a big hit right now. But it was the coolest thing ever. When this thing drove itself and I was just sitting there, it was the coolest thing ever. They've since baited it back, so I think they're dealing with some legal issues. But the point is, there's eight cameras in this thing, nine technically, okay? So there's three in the front, one facing that way, that way, and in the front.
and then there's one in each passenger driver's side door and then there's one in each passenger door facing backwards and then there's one in the back. And then there's one in the car too. When this thing was self -driving on the highway, when a truck was trying to come into my blind spot, it would notice and then it would go to the other lane. But it would shut off whenever it said, camera is occluded. Like clean your cameras basically, camera is occluded. And I think that's a good metaphor for why most people don't achieve their dreams.
because they have inaccurate data. It's like a GPS that doesn't have updated data, and you're just driving into a lake and then blaming the universe. When in reality, you're just off.
Frank Hereda (51:32.13)
Gotcha. So you're saying recalibrate by least understanding where the general group is that you're trying to compare yourself to instead of just saying, about me yesterday, because I have no idea where I'm really headed if I don't take that as a compass, like a North star.
Alan Lazaros (51:38.738)
Yes. Yes.
Alan Lazaros (51:49.37)
Yes, the floor and ceiling and where you are compared to yesterday. That's, I think, the best conceptualization. And to go back to the accuracy thing, there's three things to be accurate about. It's accurate with self, accurate with other people and accurate with the world. So how do you work and why do you work that way? Self -awareness, which is by the way, current location in the GPS. And then you need a destination address, which is where you're headed. What's your goal?
Who do you want to become? That kind of thing. And then you also need updated data on the terrain. So you need to understand how you work, how human beings work, and how the world works. And I've found that the people who understand themselves at the deepest level, that's their natural inclination. They've had a diary since they were five, but they don't know the economy. They don't understand the global economy, right? 5 .44 billion people online, 8 billion people on the planet. They don't understand technology. Listen, in the 21st century, you need to be more than just self -aware.
You need to be, and I was the opposite. I had low self -awareness, but I had tons of economic understanding of business and finance and science and technology and all that kind of stuff. I think you need the external, we're all either externally driven or internally driven. And all of us need to flip the script because if what you wanted was what you needed, you'd already have.
Frank Hereda (53:08.76)
Very true.
So listen, we're getting close to time. So why don't, it's been a great conversation.
Tell everybody where they can find you. Tell them anything that you want them to know. Any last words, maybe.
Alan Lazaros (53:30.472)
Frank, thank you for having me. This was really, really wonderful. It was vulnerable for me because it's a side of me that I felt comfortable to bring out. Particularly the computer engineer version of me came out a lot in this and traditionally that's not been well accepted. But I hope it added value. I hope everyone can think a little differently after this episode. One parting thing would
Frank Hereda (53:49.092)
Ugh.
Alan Lazaros (54:01.606)
Where are you at with this success versus fulfillment thing? Success is your ability to achieve and that's important. I mean if you can't achieve things you're in trouble. Let's be honest. You're not gonna you're not gonna get your dreams if you can't achieve. And if you are a great achievement that's awesome. That's step one I think. Are you fulfilled? Do you have a meaningful life? Are you making meaningful progress toward meaningful goals for a meaningful purpose in alignment with your own unique
core values and core aspirations. And so I think that the world will be a better place when we all pick up our responsibility and really take responsibility for your own future. Because no, you can't control the global economy, but you can definitely control what you say, think, do, feel, and believe. And that is within your control. So as long as you're doing all you can with all you have, then you're going to look in the mirror fulfilled. But I do believe
And I've been there because I was letting myself down before 26 in every arena I can tell you. I I drank too much and too often. did drugs. I was not a fulfilled human being. I was unfulfilled. And I wasn't maximizing my own unique potential. And so we all have a choice. And the choice is to do all you can, become all you can and give all you can or to settle. And I think that I would encourage you
Aim a little higher, work a little harder, become a little more and you're off to the races and I think you'll find yourself more fulfilled.
Frank Hereda (55:34.166)
Love it. Well said. thanks for sharing your story. I appreciate you talking about some of the, more vulnerable parts of your life. And I know that people were able to take something away from that. So I appreciate it and hopefully we can do it again. We still, had, we, I could have talked for a little longer. So for sure. So maybe, maybe again in the future, but, everybody, thanks for the, for joining us on the other episode and we'll, we'll catch you next time. Bye
Alan Lazaros (56:02.45)
Thank you, Frank. Appreciate
Frank Hereda (56:03.886)
Bye buddy.
INFORMATION:
Frank Hereda (Business Coach): www.frankhereda.com
Alan Lazaros: www.nextleveluniverse.com
