Sleep Smarter: Conversations With A Sleep Coach (Episode 12)

Frank Hereda (00:01.806) Alright everybody, welcome to another episode of Focused Free Fit. It's Frank, your favorite business coach here. And we have a special guest today. I'm really excited actually for this conversation. It's something I'm really passionate about. And that topic is sleep. And so we have Amanda with us today. And Amanda, what I love to do in the beginning of every podcast is talk a little bit, have you talk a little bit about yourself, your back story. And I always wanna know a little bit about how you grew up. Because I love to see if there's a tie between, you know, my guests and how they grew up and what they end up doing. So I always think that's always interesting. So why don't you tell us a little bit about you and you know, before we get into sleep and just how you came to be where you are today and how you grew up and that kind of– those kind of things. Amanda (00:48.059) Great, well, hi Frank, thanks for having me on the show. I'm excited to be here to talk about sleep. So going way back in the time machine, I grew up, I grew up in New York. I live in Michigan now, but grew up in New York, primarily on Long Island. And, you know, a blue collar family, my dad was a New York City police officer. My mom was a stay at home mom. Eventually she became an aerobics instructor. Frank Hereda (00:57.486) Yeah. Amanda (01:15.547) And I had a great childhood. My parents were always into diet and fitness. My dad worked at all the time. I mentioned my mom. So, you know, that was instilled in me at an early age. Unfortunately, back in those days, there was a lot of, you know, diet dogma as well. So I've been through all of the different low fat and... Atkins and I remember my parents doing the cabbage soup diet and like all these You don't want that one Frank Hereda (01:47.214) Now that, I have heard of a lot of diets, but the cabbage soup diet I am not aware of. Amanda (01:53.627) yeah, they loved that one. And they eventually, you know, they bring it back every once in a while and it's, you don't want to be around, but yeah. So, you know, grew up with that. You know, my journey, I mean, I've been a business owner over the years. Well, first, while I was still in New York, I was working in restaurants. I was in a French restaurant for 10 years where I started out as a pastry chef. I did an apprenticeship there and. Frank Hereda (01:58.414) That's funny. That's funny. Amanda (02:19.259) in high school and 10 years later, I did just about everything and really enjoyed the restaurant industry. But then I met my husband. He's a design engineer in the automotive industry. We ended up moving to Michigan. So, that's the place. So, I decided to transition out of restaurants since he started getting a regular nine to five job. And I kind of wanted to be on the same wavelength as him. So I went back to school and got my business degree. Frank Hereda (02:34.446) That's the place. Amanda (02:49.339) I came out of school and really found that corporate life was not going to be for me. I had a couple of jobs and just didn't fit my mode of operation or my personality and kind of where my vision was for the things that I wanted to do. So coming out of there, I started a couple of my own businesses. I had a salon and day spa for about five years that I ran. I ended up selling that and I had a speed dating service back in the day. I can go into a whole podcast about that experience. Yeah. Well, eventually that became a speed networking service because of, you know, all of the crazy things that happened that made me decide that was not a good, a good business. Frank Hereda (03:25.71) I was going to say we could, we could be on here for a while. Amanda (03:43.195) So I was going around the state of Michigan and teaching networking skills to business professionals and hosting speed networking events to help people mingle a little bit more effectively. And I was doing these speed networking events at a economic development organization that had a business incubator. And the lady that was running the business incubator had... decided to leave the position. So they asked me if I wanted to throw my hat in the ring. I had no idea what a business incubator was at that time. This is like 2007, but I got the job and ended up running a business incubator and working with entrepreneurs, which I do still do consults with a lot of entrepreneurs. They're over the last 15, 18 years. That's that was one road, but all the while I still had that, that wellness, fitness, health, thing that I loved on the side. So that was all like when I wasn't working with entrepreneurs, those were all the things I was doing. Around probably in my early 40s, I was diagnosed with inflammatory bowel disease. And I went down the road of more of the conventional approach to medicine where I was taking medications and after a while those weren't working and I was facing possibly having my colon pain. And that just was not something that I wanted to do. So I decided there had to be a better way. So I went a more holistic approach to understand what was the root cause of what was going on with my inflammatory bowel disease. And after working with a functional medical practitioner, I found that I had the high mercury levels and all kinds of food sensitivities and all these different things going on that really led me down this path of. using a more holistic approach to getting to the root cause and fixing my inflammatory bowel disease. So all the while I was going through this and this was like a two year process for me. It took me a long time to pull out of that, but I was really learning a lot. And I started a blog called the feeling groovy project. So I was blogging all about my experience with all of the. Amanda (06:03.419) different things I was doing with nutrition and sleep and exercise and some of this detox stuff for the heavy metals that I was going through. And people started asking me for help. And I thought, wow, this would be fun. I'd like to do this, but I don't feel really able to give advice at this point. So I decided to go to school. And this was about 2016, 17 to become a nutritional therapy practitioner. So I went to the Nutritional Therapy Association and became certified. And once I graduated from that program, I really began to dig into autoimmune protocols and gut health protocols and really helping women with those things as well as blood sugar balance and all of those kinds of things. And although they never came to me with sleep as an issue, that was something that was really prevalent amongst all of them. They were all dealing with with bad sleep to chronic insomnia, which I was also dabbling on the side with them as I was trying to pull them out of their other conditions that they were dealing with. But it wasn't until the pandemic where my insomnia became insane. I just really, it was night after night, weeks, months where I was not sleeping. Some nights I didn't sleep at all or I would just wake in the middle of the night staring at the ceiling. And of course, at Frank Hereda (07:13.294) Mm -hmm. Amanda (07:31.547) completely impacted my health in my days. All of a sudden I saw my autoimmune condition flare up and I just, you know, cognitively was not where I needed to be and just walking around like a zombie every day. So it was at that point where I thought, okay, no, I'm not gonna just dabble in all of these different, you know, band -aids. I really, again, need to dig down and get to the root cause of what is going on. So I really dug into the research and began experimenting on myself with different protocols and methodologies. And finally, I was able to pull myself out of that insomnia and decided to take all of my learnings and put together a five week program to help individuals with sleep issues kind of get to the root cause of what's going on. And also that resulted in my book, Relax Sleep Thrive. five week journey to peaceful, restorative sleep. So I've pivoted my coaching practice to be a sleep coach where I still help individuals with the other things, because often that plays into it and you can't really separate lifestyle and nutrition and chronic conditions from sleep, but really focusing on the sleep parks. I really feel that's really the foundation of everything else. Frank Hereda (08:53.134) Wow. Okay. There was a lot there that you just talked about. So fascinating to me, but let's go back and just, I think you said something that was really important. So I'm very passionate about a lot of what you talked about. I feel for people that have something going on with their body. And I don't know that anyone really understands like the level of respect for someone that's like two years is a long time. First of all, I think about the two years of no sleep, you know, stressing out about what is going on, how to get to the root of it, what is it, the trial and error, I mean that's a lot. And so I think about all of that. But root cause I think is the problem. Most people, especially nowadays in the medical facility, I feel like there is no let's go to the root cause. It's let me just treat what you have right now, but we don't know what's causing it. That's most likely not the actual problem. the problem is an underlying issue and we're just treating the - the surface level, right? And so I guess really what my question is, how did you decide who to go to? So I - I heard you say the holistic route. For someone out there who is struggling with something and they're like, what do I do? Because I just believe that - I'm not saying you ca - you shouldn't go to a doctor, but I think - trying to go the holistic route or the nutrition route would be a great place to start at the same time maybe and get two different varying opinions. Where– how do you decide where to go to at that step? Amanda (10:22.427) Yeah, for sure. And you know, there's definitely room for an integrative approach to that where you're working with your physician, but not just accepting that medications and you know, well, this is, you know, what you're stuck with now and the rest of your life, this is the way it's going to be. And, and I found that my doctors would actually get insulted and aggravated when I would mention, could it be what I'm eating? Could it? Frank Hereda (10:28.782) Yes. Frank Hereda (10:37.134) what it is. Sure. Amanda (10:49.179) there's something else be going on. They just did not want to hear that. You know, where I live now in Holland, Michigan, back when I was going through all of this, there wasn't, there weren't a lot of more functional holistic doctors around. So what they weren't, it wasn't easy for me to find one. So I really had to go through my network. I mean, now, you know, you can find them online, but you know, even with. with functional medicine practitioners, DOs, all of the like, you still need to do your homework and talk to people about their experience and look up reviews and things like that would be important. So I think going through your network, I know there's a website that has all holistic doctors from around the United States. I can dig that up for you and give it to you for the show notes. Frank Hereda (11:23.406) Sure. Frank Hereda (11:44.334) Yeah, I was just curious, did you Google search nutritional therapist? Did you go to a nutritionist? Is that what people need to find out to start the process? I think that's really get tests to see what they're allergic to. That's the kind of the question. That's what I meant. Amanda (11:46.587) I don't have any hope. Mmm. Amanda (12:00.699) Yeah, I went to a D .O. at the time, but he, you know, when I did Google it, it came under like, you know, more holistic functional approach. So, gosh. Frank Hereda (12:12.878) What's D -O? Sorry, what's D -O? Amanda (12:19.099) I don't know off the top of my head because it's been a long time, but yeah, DOs typically they have that more integrative approach to what they're doing. So there's all different types of practitioners that could fall under that. I mean, you could look for, there are nutritional therapy practitioners all over the United States and they're usually a really good start for that. And they... Frank Hereda (12:20.43) Okay, I just wasn't sure I wasn't. That's okay. Frank Hereda (12:27.982) Okay, gotcha. Gotcha. Amanda (12:46.683) They specialize in just about every type of chronic condition that you could think of. So going to the Nutritional Therapy Association site would be a good place to start as well. Frank Hereda (12:51.79) Gotcha. Frank Hereda (12:57.966) That's what I was thinking. Okay. And how long did it take for you to do that? I think that I commend you for going and doing these things, you know, later in life. I mean, that'd be like, you know, that's to take your time out and switch, switch directions and just keep getting certified. How long did that take you to do that with the national therapy association? Amanda (13:15.163) So that was a 12 month program. It was both in person and online. And through that program, you really learned like the foundations of taking a holistic nutrition approach to the systems of the body. So how all of these aspects impact blood sugar balance, hormones, digestion. And those are really like the foundations and then, you know, nutritional like minerals and, you know, understanding how food plays into that. And then really, you know, when those things get out of balance, how that could lead to chronic conditions, you know, down the road. So really, you know, taking this approach where you're really trying to pinpoint where the imbalances and the burdens are in the body while also looking at the individuals. lifestyle, food, stress, health history, all of those things. So there are different protocols. I had like an autoimmune protocol and all different digestive gut healing protocols that we would do. But you're always also working on those other aspects. You can't just say, we're only gonna work on food, but we're gonna ignore your stress, we're gonna ignore your sleep, we're gonna ignore your exercise and all of these things. So taking that. Frank Hereda (14:36.078) Sure. Amanda (14:41.275) that approach to it is. Frank Hereda (14:43.534) And what I hear in what you're saying is, cause I believe this, I believe I used to be the person that was thought people who just, this is, you know, years ago, a long time ago, but when people would mention organic, I'm like, they're crazy. Or, you know, no one talked about sleep until five years ago, but you know, at scale, but I was the one that would sleep three, four hours. I'm like, no big deal. I love my sleep. But when I didn't get it, I didn't care. I didn't realize how much it affected me. So, But I think it's interesting that when you talk to these clients, when you started being, you know, doing the nutrition work, that everything was tied back to sleep. They were all having trouble sleeping. So I think that's really interesting. So let's– let's maybe talk a little bit about sleep. But I also heard you talk about how everything plays a role. You can't just do one and ignore the other. You have to– it takes work. It's work to be healthy, in my opinion. It takes work to– to make sure that you're doing the right things. So let's talk a little bit about the foundation of good sleep or what you're finding is the most common issue you would see. You talked about insomnia. You know, I think on this, most people you would know better than I would, but my assumption would be, I know a lot of people, men and women, that get up in the middle of the night to pee. And they go to the bathroom and then on their way back to the bed, all these thoughts start creeping in. Amanda (16:10.683) Yeah. Frank Hereda (16:10.926) And so my question is like, let's talk about the quality of good sleep and then how do you eliminate that option? Like if you have to get up in the middle of the night, what do they do so that they don't have those thoughts creep in and then they get by the time they get to bed, they're thinking of all the stressful stuff in the day. Let's let's talk about all these things. It's a lot. Amanda (16:27.195) Yep. Yeah, it is a lot and it's a very, you know, N equals one, right? I mean, there's no like set answer or, you know, magic bullet for anyone. So that's why, you know, when I'm working with clients and also in my book, I'm making it so that people are really examining their own life and tracking, you know, Frank Hereda (16:39.726) Sure. Amanda (16:54.971) their sleep to like all the things that they're doing during the day and working on sleep hygiene. There's a lot to it. So, you know, as it relates to, to insomnia, you know, whether you, so you mentioned waking in the middle of the night. So there's waking in the middle of the night issues. There's also having trouble following the sleep issues. There's also just, you know, not getting. wildy sleep where you're going through all of the sleep stages and really rejuvenating and regenerating your body, you know, to I mean, so many things happen in our sleep that for our physical and cognitive performance that are so important. So it's really looking at that. So even if you're sleeping through the night, but you still feel tired every day, you know, why, you know, what's up with that as well. Frank Hereda (17:48.622) And so like, what are some things that people can do? If you're in, let's take those two examples. We can't go through every example, but if I have trouble falling asleep, I'm guessing that it comes down to, you know, what the room is like, maybe what my bedtime routine is, some things around that. And then if I get up in the middle of the night, how do I prevent those thoughts from creeping in? Or how do I, what do I do in that situation? Those are two that I think would be probably the most common. What would you, like, what do you do about that? Amanda (18:17.147) Sure. Well, actually we talk about our nighttime routines, but really good sleep starts the minute we wake up in the morning. And all the things that we do throughout the day can impact our sleep for better or worse. So the first thing that you would think about is light exposure. So with our circadian rhythms, you know, it's our 24 internal body clock that you know, that is responsible for a lot of almost all of the processes in our body. And of course, sleep being the one most notable for this conversation. So when you wake in the morning, you know, sure. Frank Hereda (18:59.278) Just to clarify, sorry I didn't mean to interrupt but I wanna make sure everybody understands what just, so circadian rhythm is I understand it when it's dark, that's when you're going to bed and when it's light, that's when you're getting up. That's our natural rhythm and that's what you're talking about, correct? Okay. Amanda (19:12.891) Yes. Yeah. So that's how bodies are designed. So you're rising with the sun, right? The first thing you want to try to do is get some type of, you know, sunlight in your eye that really help you, you know, begin to set those rhythms. But if you're like me and you live in Michigan and you get up at 5 a it's pitch black outside, you know, there's no... Frank Hereda (19:35.182) Yeah. Yep. Amanda (19:39.515) strolling outside, you know, with my coffee and looking at the sun. So there are ways to get around that with light boxes and different things like that. But really, you know, you're getting up in the morning, that's when your cortisol is highest. And throughout the day, you know, it starts to wane as you get closer to bedtime. And it's in the evening when that darkness approaches, that's when your melatonin kicks in. And there's this exchange between cortisol and melatonin. So then your melatonin kicks in and that should, it'll put you to bed and that dissipates throughout the night to the morning. And then your cortisol comes back up. And then there's this sleep pressure that also happens. And we could talk about that in a little bit. So when you're going through your day, if you're in a stressed out mode in flight or fight all day long and your cortisol is just, you know, ramp it through your body. It's going to be really hard for you to get to sleep at night. And then there are different things throughout. So stress management is key. So being stressed all day, which we all are, you know, some we can control, some we cannot. It's really learning how to manage that stress. And this, this will relate to our later discussion about getting up in the night with the constant mind. So everything that you do during the day from meal timing, exercise timing, medications and supplement timing, You know, caffeine, I mean, all of these things could impact your sleep. So I always advocate for really looking at those and tracking it against your sleep. So, you know, caffeine is, it's pretty well known, you know, caffeine disrupts sleep and it's, you know, it raises our cortisol. It makes us alert. So obviously it's going to impact our sleep and caffeine stays in your system for eight to 10 hours and people. Amanda (21:44.667) You know, they metabolize caffeine differently. And also as you get older, you metabolize it differently. When I was younger, I could easily have coffee with dinner after dinner. I know people that can drink an espresso, you know, in bed and be fine. Is that you? I envy you. Frank Hereda (22:00.59) I don't do it, but when I do I go out I'm out cold like pretty yeah, it's no problem Amanda (22:04.795) Yeah, I envy you, but many, many people don't have that luxury. And it also disrupts our sleep pressure. So there's another chemical responsible for sleep called adenosine that is producing our brain and throughout our body. And it's a chemical that builds that sleep pressure throughout the day. So the longer you're awake, the more adenosine builds up. Caffeine blocks the receptors for that. So you're not building up that tiredness throughout the day. So really playing with your caffeine timing is important. And obviously coffee is not the only culprit. It's in tea, it's in chocolate, it's in supplements, it's in medications, it's in a lot of things. So really energy drinks. So being a bit mindful about that. With meal timing, you want to try to finish your last meal. you know, two, three hours before bed to give yourself time to digest because, you know, it can mess with your blood sugar, your digestion, just having that heavy feeling. The digestion process takes away from the other processes in your body. When you're trying to sleep, it raises your body temperature, which you do not want. So that as well, alcohol, a lot of people really feel that. And I was, you know, I was a culprit in this as well. where that evening glass of wine to wind down or that nightcap. Well, since alcohol is a sedative, it'll help you fall asleep, but then it has a rebound effect around two, three in the morning, which may wake you up. Yeah. So that would be something to look at your alcohol. And again, with age, it gets more and more prevalent. I... I barely drink anymore because now no matter what time of day and I track my sleep on an aura ring and I know it impacts my sleep. Even if I don't wake up in the middle of the night, it impacts my sleep cycles. So really looking at alcohol, medications, there's so many common medications that can cause insomnia. You really need to work with your doctor to look at the timing. And it's blood pressure medications, it's cholesterol medications, it's SSRIs. If you're doing anything for... Amanda (24:27.963) ADHD or you taking corticosteroids, all of these things could have insomnia as a side effect, as well as supplements, B vitamins, multivitamins, these things have things in it to produce energy in our bodies. And it's not the type of thing you want to have with dinner right before you go to bed. So really looking at all of those things. When it comes to exercise, Frank Hereda (24:49.198) Sure. Amanda (24:56.635) Exercise is great for sleep, particularly if you do it earlier in the day. Now again, this is a bio individual, N equals one. But if you're doing really high intensity exercise towards the evening or closer to bed, your cortisol is gonna be raised, your body temperature is gonna be raised, and it just may help you not fall asleep. So, you're really looking at the things that, from the minute we wake up, Frank Hereda (25:19.182) Yeah. Amanda (25:24.443) and then for when we get to the nighttime routine, which we can get into, but I'm gonna pause there, so I'm not just rambling. Frank Hereda (25:29.678) Yeah, no, that's, that's a lot of great stuff. I think of questions as you're as you're talking because you know, I again, this is years ago, but I'm, I'm big on all of this nutrition, sleep, everything. I found such a huge benefit when I started to do investigation into my body, right? So and there's more that I want to do. But I think it, you know, doing blood work like you said it's all on a per individual basis right and I agree with that but you don't know anything until you pull your blood work like you got to see inside but then you make rules for yourself at least that's what worked for me I'm wondering what you think about that I mean not so strict but every once in a while I'll have a glass of wine or a drink or two but it's rare I hardly ever drink but I've found that things that are little like you said I used to make fun of my mom she used to where can we go to eat Amanda (26:05.147) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Frank Hereda (26:26.318) 5 o 'clock would be a great reservation time and I'm like, 5 o 'clock, we eat at 830, what are you talking about mom? And now, I am the person who's like, hey, where can we eat by 5, 530? And my wife's like, who are you? And I'm like, look, I feel so much– yeah, I feel so much better and I sleep so much better when I have– when I eat many, many hours before I go to sleep. It's amazing the difference. In fact, that'd be something I would tell people to try for like one of the first things. Amanda (26:38.747) I know. It's the early bird special. Amanda (26:44.507) that's too different. Frank Hereda (26:53.294) just to try it. I feel so much better when I don't have a big belly full of food when I go to sleep. So– but I think a lot of what you're saying is great. I track my sleep too with an Auraring. I've used multiple devices. But I find that it's really– it's really, really helpful. So okay. So let's– so we can keep– let's keep going. So those are all things that we need to understand and know what we're putting in our body, obviously. Uhm—let's talk a little bit more now about maybe when you get up in the middle of the night. So I'm guessing that if you can work on the things during the day, that might help how often you get up in the night. But the—but the getting up to go to the bathroom is something that almost everybody deals with that I talked to and that's not gonna go away. And then it's the mind racing. So is there—is there a secret or something you can do to make sure that your mind doesn't race? What—what—what—what would that be? Amanda (27:47.771) Yeah, there are many different things to experiment with. So, you know, as relates to really getting that quality sleep and being in deep enough sleep. So you're not so easily awoken in the night, you know, all the things that we talked about leading up to the evening where you're really winding down your, you know, making sure that you're not, all wired and, and stressed when you go to bed. So, you know, there's so many things that. Frank Hereda (28:03.534) huh. Amanda (28:18.107) that are on our minds. And it seems that, you know, when we're, during the day when we're busy, we often don't have the time to focus and think about it. But it's in the evening when we're, you know, alone in the dark and we have nothing but ourselves in our thoughts where things can always get out of hand. So it, you know, things always seem 10 times worse at night. And then you wake up in the morning, you're like, what? Wait, that's nothing. Why would I stay up all night worrying about that? So different things that you can do even before you go to bed to try to alleviate some of that is meditation for me. You know, I've had this on and off relationship with meditation because I'm a very type A person. I would sit there and I'd be like, I am just thinking here. I can't turn off my thoughts. I... Frank Hereda (28:53.038) So true, so true. Amanda (29:16.123) you know, this is a waste of my time. What is it actually doing for me? I have a million other things that I could be accomplishing at this moment. But I really took the time, particularly when I was going through my insomnia to, to get, you know, to really try to be diligent about it. And yeah, there's so many studies about all the benefits of meditation. But I think for me, the one thing that's always helped with is not being drawn into your thoughts. So you're training your mind to let thoughts pass and not going down the rabbit hole where all of a sudden it just snowballs into, you know, incessant thinking and mind chatter. So having that regular meditation practice could be helpful. So when you do wake in the middle of the night, do not, not as apt to go down into those, you know, into those thoughts, into that mind chatter. that goes on. Another thing that could be helpful before you go to bed is about an hour before bed, not right before, create your to -do list for the next day. Just do a mind dump. Get it out of your head, all of the things that you have in your to -do list and tell yourself, I'm gonna deal with this tomorrow. I can't do anything while I'm asleep in the rest of the world or at least most of the people in the country are asleep. So, I know that I have this, I'm not going to forget it and I'm going to deal with it tomorrow. The same thing goes with worries. You know, really journaling and creating even a worry list of all the things that are bothering you and then say, again, tomorrow I'm going to create a designated worry time where I am going to problem solve. I'm going to reframe these thoughts. You know, they're already, you know, there are a bunch of techniques that, that you could use for that. So, you know, trying to empty your brain of all of those things. Amanda (31:19.867) You know, as far as like getting up and having to go to the bathroom at the night, you know, the first thing is, you know, think about when we talked about the timing of what we do. You know, don't be guzzling liquids right before you go to bed. If you like, if you're doing that meal timing thing too, I mean, definitely you need to stay hydrated throughout the day. Cause that's if you're dehydrated, that will impact your sleep, but try not to, not to be. Frank Hereda (31:32.91) Sure. Amanda (31:46.491) Drinking right up to bedtime. So you will lessen that feeling of having to get up to go to the bathroom Sometimes there are other things that wake us in the night and then all of a sudden we realize we have to go to the bathroom You know and you know that that's a whole other conversation about what those things are So, you know really trying to distract your mind as well so There are visualization exercises you could do to get out of your head and into your body. So body scanning, type meditations, breath work, using that box breathing. There are all different types of breath work that you could do to kind of get out of your head and focus on your breath. It's also, I'm sorry, go ahead. Frank Hereda (32:33.422) I think. No, I think you're– I think you're 100 % right. I was gonna say, would it make sense to meditate if you can't go back to bed and you get up and you're like, great, I think the breathwork's a great one. That works for me. And I naturally didn't know that that was a solution. The first one you said which was, hey, no, I can't do anything about it tonight anyway. Everybody's sleeping so I'll just deal with it tomorrow. And that works for me, thankfully, but I know some people are like, well, that sounds great for you, but it doesn't work for me. But I think– breath work, meditation, trying that worrying thing. So there's a couple different options that people can try, I think then and then they can work on it. But again, it's work. It's if we go back to the work thing, right? Amanda (33:10.363) Yeah. Yeah. And there's also, you can use sound as well. You know, there's lots of data out, not only for white noise, but for green noise, pink noise, you know, binaural beats, you know, they all do something in our brains to kind of calm down our minds, distract our thoughts or distract us from our thoughts, I should say. So there, you know, there's all different apps out there. I love the Calm app. because it has sleep stories, it has nature sounds, it has meditation, it has breath work. It's really among the best. And there are many, like I said. For me, I have this crazy thing that I do where it's like, okay, so in my mind, I'm watching this show, this television show, and I'm gonna change the channel. Frank Hereda (33:46.318) I agree. Amanda (34:03.035) So this goes to the visualization that we're talking about. When I mentioned earlier that I used to work in a restaurant, even though it was over 30 years ago, I still remember every recipe for all of the cakes and pastries and the decorating and all of that. So I will just go through in my mind, visualize that I'm actually making a cake and do all the ingredients one by one and just like really go through the whole process where. It takes my mind off my thoughts and it's literally so boring that it helps me fall asleep. Some people imagine themselves in nature. Sometimes imagine themselves looking through like a GoPro in their mind of the walk that they do every day. So just using all these different techniques. But what I will also add is that if you're still awake, say 20 minutes or so, Frank Hereda (34:35.598) I love that. Amanda (35:01.659) First of all, before I even say that, so you're gonna have to kind of think through this, don't look at the clock when you wake up in the middle of the night, because then you're gonna be like, no, it's the middle of night and I have this thing tomorrow and I can't sleep. Then you're just like, your cortisol is gonna go up and you're just, forget it, you're just doomed. Don't do that. But you also don't wanna just lay in bed because then you, for too long, because you start associating bed and your brain, it's just like a subconscious thing. Frank Hereda (35:13.71) Heheheheh. Frank Hereda (35:18.446) Yep. It's over. Frank Hereda (35:30.926) okay. Not sleeping. Yeah. Amanda (35:31.131) that you're gonna associate bedtime with issues, right? So it is recommended that you get out of bed, go in another room and do something relaxing under that, you know, no light, no, don't turn on the light. You know, blue light is another no, no, you definitely want to, you know, going back to that wind down routine is blue light is going to, you know, disrupt your melatonin production. Your melatonin needs darkness. So having that, that - Sure. Frank Hereda (35:58.19) I have a question about blue light. I have a question about two things. One is blue light and one is darkness. So you mentioned in the beginning, so I get up quarter to five, it's black out, I work out, I'm done by six, it's still really barely light out, even now this time of year. So I don't think that messes with my circadian rhythm. I mean, I still get sunlight after that when I'm outside, I'll go stare at the sky for a couple minutes when I get to work, whatever. So is that an issue if you work out when it's blackout and then you know I don't think it is but I just thought I'd ask and then the second piece was As you're talking right now and you're talking about doing something. Wait, what was the second thing you just talked about? I lost my thought already. What was the second question? You just said you were talking about Getting up and going to a different room But there was a question I Amanda (36:39.739) We're talking about, yeah, right. And not putting on, not looking at your phone or the blue light that you're doing something like more relaxing, yeah. Frank Hereda (36:48.672) the blue light. That's what it was. So the blue light, if you're sleeping and your eyelids are closed and you have a TV on, does it affect you with your eyelids closed? I mean, I'm gonna say cause of the volumes up or whatever, but, or cause I know some people are like, I like to fall asleep to a TV and they actually think it helps them and they go to sleep. I don't think it's actually helping them. I think they're just tired and then that probably causes problems, but does that affect you while you're sleeping? The blue light or just when your eyes are open, do you know? Amanda (37:16.699) You know, I've read articles and I'd have to look for the studies that say we have light receptors, you know, in our skin that could pick up on that. But I think it's also... Frank Hereda (37:24.398) Yeah. Mm -hmm. Amanda (37:31.003) It might be, you might be able to fall asleep. Well, first of all, if you don't have insomnia and you have great sleep and you sleep with the television in the room, you know, just like you having coffee in bed, you know, yay, good for you. You know, that's working for you for now. But if you're, you know, the other thing besides the blue light is just your heat. It could be disrupting like your nervous system at the same time. Frank Hereda (37:40.622) Whatever, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amanda (38:00.379) Right? Because whatever's on the TV, if it's loud, if it's, it could just mess with your nervous system and mess with your sleep quality as you're going through it. And I think, you know, if you're, if you're using something like an aura ring, you might see if that is the case or not. or if you just get up and you're tired, even though you slept all night, that's another indication that that might not be working for you. But really, you know, ideally we're associating our bedroom with sleep and. intimacy with our partners, that you're not working in there, you're not eating in there, you're not watching TV in there, you want it dark, you want it cool, you want it clutter free, you want to have a comfortable bedding. All those things are going to help you with your sleep. And if you are the type that likes to watch TV towards the evening or look at your phone, I would recommend getting blue light blocking glasses. I read my Nook every night and it's got, It's a screen, but I put on blue light, blackened glasses about an hour before I go to bed. And that really helps. I just feel like everything coming down from that. So, you know, there are little hacks and workarounds to these things. Frank Hereda (39:09.39) Gotcha. I recently bought some—my next question was gonna be around like Wi -Fi. So you know, you see—I see—there's a lot of people that I follow and I know in the nutrition space and they're big on, you know, EMF frequencies and all of that kind of stuff. And so they have these chips you can now attach to your phone or your iPads or your laptop. So it kind of takes that EMF frequency down from probably 60 % mitigation or something. Amanda (39:39.803) Mm -hmm. Frank Hereda (39:39.982) So I put those on our phones and mine's always on airplane mode when I sleep, that kind of stuff. Do you think that has a big role with our sleep or do you not, you know, I don't know how much research there is on it at this point but– Amanda (39:49.467) Yeah, yeah, I know there is some research on it. I mean that I think it's worth experimenting with, right? I mean, if you're having poor sleep and you might shut down your wifi at night, you might not have your phone in your room or on airplane mode. I mean, to mitigate that is, I mean, who knows what the heck we're doing. I mean, I have these Bluetooth things in my ears. I don't know what's growing in my head right now. But yeah, we live in this world, you know, at the moment. We have to do the best we can. Frank Hereda (40:16.366) I know. Frank Hereda (40:23.246) I agree. Yes. I know it's so funny. Yeah. But I think that's, this all comes down every time I, I almost every time I do a podcast, it always comes down to being your own advocate. I think you really just have to be your own advocate and everybody has their different variations, right? I'm more extreme. Like I do anything I can to say, Hey, this might be helping a little bit. It gave me a little bit of an edge. And then some are not so extreme, but I think, like, so, Amanda (40:23.323) It's no longer the days of Little House on the Prairie. You know, we're just been barred with all of this. Frank Hereda (40:53.166) Let's, let's talk about this a little bit. So I feel like we've covered the sleep part pretty good. I mean, for the basics, is there, how much does I feel like working out in nutrition? Because this kind of goes into the less craziness you put into your body, the more your body can do what it was meant to do. So when I eat something, I think like going back to like a whole food, if you will, for the lack of a better term, you know, not eating something that's processed. Amanda (40:59.611) Mm -hmm. Frank Hereda (41:21.774) and eating an actual vegetable or an egg or whatever it is that you know like a piece of meat or you know, something you know where it came from and there's not 50 things in it and then it was created into something different. That creates less chemicals that are in your body. Let's talk a little about that. How much does that affect your sleep? I mean, nutrition working out, I feel like it helps me a lot but just curious to know your thoughts. Amanda (41:31.451) Mm -hmm. Amanda (41:42.811) It's a lot, it impacts a lot. And there's a bi -directional relationship here. So let's start off with bad sleep and how it impacts your body and your food choices. And then we'll talk the vice versa. So part of the thing that happens while we're sleeping, particularly in deep sleep is that's when our hormones are regulating. And this includes our hunger hormones. Grellin, which tells our bodies that we're hungry, that gets cranked up so we become more hungry. And then leptin that tells us that we're full gets downgraded so we don't recognize our satiety signal as well. So this could result when you don't get a good sleep. So this then during the day can make you more prone to being hungry. Frank Hereda (42:29.934) You're saying when you don't get a lot of good sleep. Okay, all right. Amanda (42:39.451) Like I know that if I have a bad night's sleep, and I usually, I could do some, you know, I do like 12, 14 hours, you know, fasting. That's what works for me. But if I have bad sleep, even if I wake up at five in the morning, I'm starving. And I feel like I need to eat. Another thing that happens during sleep is blood sugar regulation and insulin. So if you're getting bad sleep, that's out of whack. Frank Hereda (42:54.478) That's interesting. Amanda (43:08.667) which is gonna give you more blood sugar, ups and downs, hypoglycemia type symptoms. You're gonna have more cravings and you're just gonna be more apt to make choices that would not be beneficial to your health. On the flip side of that, going to your conversation about processed foods, all those chemicals, you know. There are so many things that are going to stimulate. I mean, you just think about all the research that's gone into ADHD and children and the artificial colors and all of the food chemicals and things that increase that. It happens to us too. So you're more apt to have all kinds of neurological responses to that, as well as food sensitivities. So your body just does not know what to do with that food. And it's going to create issues that's going to increase the stress response in your body that's going to impact your sleep. So there's that, that, and then as far as just like nutrition itself, I mean, you, if you have nutritional deficiencies in your body, it's going to impact your sleep. So you definitely want to be eating a high quality whole food, nutrient dense diet. You want to make sure you're. You're getting your protein and your healthy fats and your complex carbs to whatever degree for you works. And just staying away from all that garbage that unfortunately a lot of people, 70 % of their diet is made up of. Frank Hereda (44:47.246) Yeah. Frank Hereda (44:55.278) Garbage. Amanda (44:56.635) garbage. Frank Hereda (44:57.998) Yeah, it's unfortunate. And I just, there's an awareness issue. I just, I didn't know until I started to go down a rabbit hole for a specific reason. Someone in my family got sick and so I started to go down a rabbit hole to try and figure out what could they do to help themselves. And doing that, I started to realize like, what was I doing? I also used to be in the nonprofit industry with a business and growing that business, we used to do a lot of charity events. And every time we would do, a organization for whether it was Susan G. Komen or one of those type events, I would get these women and I would always—I'm a curious person so I would pick their brains and I would say, so tell me about your story. Tell me, you know—and they'd tell me about their journey with cancer and then they would tell me the foods that they stopped eating and the products that they started using and how they changed their life. And I remember thinking at the time, why would I wait till something like this happens to me? I'm gonna do what they're doing now. And so I just started to make those changes right away. Because I'm like, if they're doing that now, they're—they're doing the research. And so I started doing research and I started to change the way I did things. And then I went down a rabbit hole on 50 different things. But I think people don't have the awareness and they don't know because there's not enough people and they don't take the time to watch podcasts on health and whatever. So— Amanda (45:58.139) Mm -hmm. Frank Hereda (46:19.95) It's really unfortunate and it's sad and so that's a reason why– one of the reasons why I do this podcast because I want people to at least maybe come across it and someone gets, you know, they– they maybe wake up a little bit. But yeah, food is terrible. Amanda (46:30.843) Yeah, I know it's so unfortunate because, you know, in mainstream, there's so much bad information out there and so much of it is, you know, the big food companies, you know, and funding, funding a lot of these organizations that are supposed to be helping people, you know, so they're not going to tell you not to drink Coke and, you know, have these products because you have to follow the money in those circumstances. But it's hard for the average citizen to work through all of the noise and you put trust in these companies and the medical profession and the pharmaceuticals and all the things, because you think they all have good intentions that are going to help us, but then down the road, the consequences start arising from that. Frank Hereda (47:24.366) Well, it's that, it's putting trust in others that we just assume because of their role, which is natural. I mean, you would think, well, this person has my best interest at heart. And it's not that they all don't. Some don't, some do, some don't. But I also think you're right. It's a follow the money situation. But also you look at someone like, like most of us, for my money professions that I have licenses for, I have to do CE every year, right? I have to stay up, I have to keep. being ahead of the game. There's a lot of technologies changing industries. Are you up to speed with what's going on and what people can take advantage of? I look at the medical field and I'm by no means discrediting the medical field but you think about it and it's like what they learn and then what they don't know about nutrition first, what they don't have to learn about nutrition and then how quickly medical—the medical field is changing with technology. How could you stay up on that? And they—they're out—the stuff they know is outdated so fast. And so it just causes all this commotion and miscommunication. I think it's just really difficult. So, you know, subject. So, what about aging? I feel like, you know, sleep is, I think it's huge for aging. It's obviously great for health. How do you, what, what is it, how much does it affect our aging? So I read somewhere that if you're a night owl, which I think, you know, is something that people just need to. Amanda (48:27.515) Yeah, yeah, for sure. Amanda (48:38.715) Mm -hmm. Frank Hereda (48:51.598) That's not—I don't know that that's not true, but it's—I think it's not true. Like, you know, most people just can be—they can follow their circadian rhythm whether they choose to or not is up to them. But I think also that the people that, you know, are up or have night shift jobs, I read that they—they live X number of years less than most people that don't have night—can you talk about that a little bit? Amanda (49:12.955) Yeah, I know that's a hard situation. I mean, when you're talking about shift work, you know, it's just the way our society unfortunately does things like, you know, even if you have to work a night shift, if it's a consistent situation, you could work with that. I mean, you could still follow all of the same recommendations. and try to set a circadian rhythm that works for you where you're creating the darkness, you're doing all of the things that we talked about earlier. But if your schedule is inconsistent and you're not able to do that, yes, that could lead to the big troubles down the road. So I really wish that wasn't the case. I mean, we need our nurses, we need our... Frank Hereda (50:02.894) yeah, no, for sure. Amanda (50:04.155) You know, we need all these individuals that do this, but sometimes I really question the hours that they have to live with. But when it comes to aging, you know, sleep is imperative. When we were talking about, you know, the things that happen during sleep and a lot of what happens during the sleep is, you know, neurological and cognitive. So, you know, it's, you know, in our deep sleep, Frank Hereda (50:11.374) Yeah. Amanda (50:31.931) is when our glymphatic system kicks in and we're kind of washing out some of the toxins or the unnecessary things that are in there. During our REM sleep, it's memory consolidation and all of these things are happening cognitively. And it's shown that individuals that have had poor sleep or suffered from chronic insomnia or more more apt to get Alzheimer's dementia and all of, you know, Parkinson's, all of these neurological issues that, you know, could be accumulating, you know, during a lifetime that you're not aware of. you know, and the same thing goes for, you know, blood sugar regulation and diabetes as well. You know, we talked about like what happens after. you know, one night of bad sleep with all of the dysregulation in our hormones and insulin and blood sugar. But is that chronic over time? You're more apt to get more and more chronic diseases that are going to be detrimental. You know, when we're sleeping, we're regenerating, you know, our tissues and building muscle and all of that. And if you have bad sleep, sarcopenia starts in our thirties. So if we're not having the protein and, you know, doing strength training and getting good sleep. that's going to have ramifications down the road. So sleep's super important. And it's, you know, as we get older, we get less of that deep sleep. You know, our sleep quality begins to suffer a lot as well. So that's unfair. I don't know if that's just mother nature saying, eh, we don't need you anymore, whatever. But yeah, sleep's just... Frank Hereda (52:21.23) Yeah, right. Amanda (52:27.579) Sleep is our superpower. No matter what stage we are in life, you know, if you're want to, you know, no matter what you want to accomplish, whether it's through physical strength or cognitive strength and abilities, your sleep is the foundation of all of those things going well. Frank Hereda (52:49.998) Couldn't agree more. So I feel like we've done a pretty good job of covering most of the basics around sleep. Is there anything you think we missed or anything that we should mention that we didn't? Amanda (53:05.307) no, I think, I think you're right. I think we, we covered a lot, you know, back to our conversation about waking in the middle of the night and having to go to the bathroom. You know, when there are, there are a number of things that can wake you in the middle of the night. and certainly that, that cortisol stress hormone, you know, yin and yang with your, with your melatonin. So blood sugar issues. Like if your blood sugar drops in the middle of the night, that is an emergency to your body and you're going to your adrenals are just gonna shoot out cortisol to get blood sugar back into your blood. And that could wake you up suddenly. So if you feel that you're suddenly waking up in the night and you're feel like wide awake, you might look into that as well. You know, hormonal issues, room temperature. is a big deal, especially for women as they're getting more into perimenopause and menopause with the night sweats and all the things that go on. But just anyone in general, your body temperature needs to drop a couple of degrees to be able to fall into sleep. So if your room is hot in the evening, that could wake you in the middle of the night. So just being cognizant of all of those things. Frank Hereda (54:31.182) It's really interesting. If people want to find you, where can they go? Amanda (54:36.987) They go to my website, amandachoco .com and on there they could, I do 30 minutes free sleep consultations. I could see my sleep programs that I have. You could find my book there. And my book is really a self -guided five week journey to really guiding you through all the things that we talked about in this conversation. And then I also have a coaching program around that. I have a free. Download to create your perfect wind down routine on my website You could also buy my book and at Amazon and Barnes and Noble calm and then on Instagram at Amanda dot Choco for just sleep tips Frank Hereda (55:19.758) Love it. I really appreciate you being on today. I appreciate your time. It's such a fascinating subject. I encourage everyone to look into it. And as a business coach, I run across all the issues I talk about on this podcast. So if you guys have questions in general, you can always go to frankarita .com, but we'll put your links below in the notes. And I encourage everyone to check her out and reach out if you have any questions specifically about sleep. But I appreciate it and we'll check everybody on the next episode. All right. Take care everybody. Amanda (55:55.835) Bye, thank you.